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  1. #1
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    7,312
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    The resources were obviously redistributed to new ideas, like Delubrum Reginae, Delubrum Reginae Savage, Memoria Misera, a second BA-like thing (Dalriada), critical engagements (which each involve the same amount of design work as dungeon bosses), the Firmament, ocean fishing, crafter and gatherer overhauls and QoL.
    (13)

  2. #2
    Player
    ZedxKayn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    719
    Character
    Capybara Friend
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    The resources were obviously redistributed to new ideas, like Delubrum Reginae, Delubrum Reginae Savage, Memoria Misera, a second BA-like thing (Dalriada), critical engagements (which each involve the same amount of design work as dungeon bosses), the Firmament, ocean fishing, crafter and gatherer overhauls and QoL.
    It was not, we had Eureka's 4 zones and BA for SB, but we also had HoH, Tataru's outfit, Allied tribe quest, more EX dungeons, ponctual events, two Ultimates, and possibly more I don't remember were cut.
    Despite reaping more money in than ever with ShB, SE didn't give it back to us as content nearly as much as they did in the past.
    (29)
    Last edited by ZedxKayn; 07-02-2021 at 05:53 PM.
    im baby

  3. #3
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    7,312
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ZedxKayn View Post
    It was not, we had Eureka's 4 zones and BA for SB, but we also had HoH, Tataru's outfit, Allied tribe quest, more EX dungeons, ponctual events, two Ultimates, and possibly more I don't remember were cut.
    Despite reaping more money in than ever with ShB, SE didn't give it back to us as content nearly as much as they did in the past.
    I implied that 2 of the eureka areas that were cut were replaced with some of the things I mentioned.

    None of the Eureka areas had Critical Engagements. What I explained about them involving the same sort of work as dungeons bosses is important to consider. In eureka we effectively just had skirmishes, which is just make a mob bigger and more powerful and call it a boss. There was sometimes mechanic work but I don't think it was on quite the same scale for most of them except the big one in each area like pazuzu. The critical engagements have the sort of mechanics we would expect in dungeons and raids.

    And of course we didn't have a Dalriada, a Delubrum Reginae, DRS, firmament or ocean fishing areas. You can argue that level design work from eureka transferred into all of these extra things but the boss fights and mechanics would most likely lend work from the 2 extra expert dungeons and the deep dungeon fights that were cut.

    I think that the Allied beast tribes, the ultimate and holiday events were cut because of covid. I am guessing on the Allied beast tribes and holiday events, but if I was a producer it would be a pretty obvious decision to cut "small" things like holidays and allied quests to make up for covid backlog. They've never cut holidays this way so it seems pretty obvious why.

    The second ultimate has even had a lot of work on it so it's not really fair to say that this was cut for other content, it's been said it was done because of covid backlog getting in the way and needing to prioritise the expansion.

    I have no idea how some little Tataru outfit can come into this. What is that even about?
    (3)
    Last edited by Jeeqbit; 07-03-2021 at 12:21 AM. Reason: Added firament and ocean fishing because these areas will involve design work

  4. #4
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ZedxKayn View Post
    It was not, we had Eureka's 4 zones and BA for SB, but we also had HoH, Tataru's outfit, Allied tribe quest, more EX dungeons, ponctual events, two Ultimates, and possibly more I don't remember were cut.
    Despite reaping more money in than ever with ShB, SE didn't give it back to us as content nearly as much as they did in the past.
    Sadly this is 100% accurate.

    It's a combination of SE is siphoning money away from FFXIV developments, and FFXIV team not hiring more people to share the workload.

    And it's showing. Glaringly so. FFXIV is SE's cash cow right now and they're milking it for all it's worth and not giving it time to properly recuperate.
    (4)
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  5. #5
    Player KizuyaKatogami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    3,472
    Character
    Kizuya Katogami
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 81
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    The resources were obviously redistributed to new ideas, like Delubrum Reginae, Delubrum Reginae Savage, Memoria Misera, a second BA-like thing (Dalriada), critical engagements (which each involve the same amount of design work as dungeon bosses), the Firmament, ocean fishing, crafter and gatherer overhauls and QoL.
    The thing is. Critical engagement bosses are really no different than eureka bosses.SB was able to give us 4 new zones, all filled with these bosses. Memoria Misera isnt really anything new since SB gave us Rathalos and Ratahlos EX while also giving us an extra trial in the form of Yojimbo. Delubrum and its savage version basically equate up to if not slightly less than the amount of bosses we'd get in a deep dungeon. Lets not forget btw, we also lost out on things such as no primal weapons for the new jobs, no new ultimate weapon models for them, no voiced alli or weapons trials, and plenty more. Resources werent just redistributed. We lost out on content. SB was able to give us extra dungeons, deep dungeon,hildibrand,allied beast tribe questline,diving,an entire new housing district,two ultimates, and much more. Content has been downgraded from last expansion and a lot of it is prior to covid so theres really no excuse for it.The only difference btw that a critical engagement has over some of the eurek abosses is that its an eclosed area. It makes you feel like youre fighting some bigger than it actually is. It's still around the same amount of mechanics.Hell one of the critical engagements is literally a pazuzu clone lmao.
    (11)

  6. #6
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    7,312
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami View Post
    The thing is. Critical engagement bosses are really no different than eureka bosses.
    Yes they are. Yoshi-P has said they are different than fate bosses. He explained that Skirmishes could be done in the open world, but that Critical Engagements are different and involves the sort of work that would go into a dungeon boss. That changes a lot, really, because that means they redistributed resources that would go into making dungeon mechanics and did it in Bozja and Zadnor.
    (4)

  7. #7
    Player KizuyaKatogami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    3,472
    Character
    Kizuya Katogami
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 81
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    Yes they are. Yoshi-P has said they are different than fate bosses. He explained that Skirmishes could be done in the open world, but that Critical Engagements are different and involves the sort of work that would go into a dungeon boss. That changes a lot, really, because that means they redistributed resources that would go into making dungeon mechanics and did it in Bozja and Zadnor.
    well i have to say it certainly doesnt feel like it. They have the same amount of mechanics as a eureka boss, theyre just in an enclosed space. Nevertheless though my overall points still stands. We're missing content. We were missing content before covid was a thing, and we're still missing content period. I hate seeing it used as an excuse when there were already things beforehand we were missing out on.
    (9)

  8. #8
    Player
    ReynTime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,677
    Character
    Princess Walk
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami View Post
    The thing is. Critical engagement bosses are really no different than eureka bosses.SB was able to give us 4 new zones, all filled with these bosses. Memoria Misera isnt really anything new since SB gave us Rathalos and Ratahlos EX while also giving us an extra trial in the form of Yojimbo. Delubrum and its savage version basically equate up to if not slightly less than the amount of bosses we'd get in a deep dungeon. Lets not forget btw, we also lost out on things such as no primal weapons for the new jobs, no new ultimate weapon models for them, no voiced alli or weapons trials, and plenty more. Resources werent just redistributed. We lost out on content. SB was able to give us extra dungeons, deep dungeon,hildibrand,allied beast tribe questline,diving,an entire new housing district,two ultimates, and much more. Content has been downgraded from last expansion and a lot of it is prior to covid so theres really no excuse for it.The only difference btw that a critical engagement has over some of the eurek abosses is that its an eclosed area. It makes you feel like youre fighting some bigger than it actually is. It's still around the same amount of mechanics.Hell one of the critical engagements is literally a pazuzu clone lmao.
    But we got... umbrellas! And photo stickers, and more scrip turn-ins (but this time there was a STORY!) with repurposed diadem again! And ex... ex.. exploration mode...
    And I mean, sure we haven't gotten any actual "expert" dungeons after 5.1 but uh... we got... cool MSQ solo fights that we do once and never again...
    (12)

  9. #9
    Player
    Daeriion_Aeradiir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    601
    Character
    Daeriion Aeradiir
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami View Post
    It's still around the same amount of mechanics. Hell one of the critical engagements is literally a pazuzu clone lmao.
    Let's do a comparison.

    Sabotender Carrido in Anemos has:

    -Raid Aoe
    -melee aoe around it
    -targetted aoe
    -stack marker

    That's it. That's literally open world mob level mechanics; you can even argue its literally a cactaur mob given a stack marker. Compare the very first, weakest Critical Engagement, the Mandragora thing:

    -Raid Aoe
    -stack marker
    -tank buster
    -Multi-person targetting aoe that unleashes 3-4 sets of aoes back to back
    -Managing a color debuff that will one shot or deal incredible damage if you don't swap colors on each set, along with making sure you're not standing in the black insta death zone.
    -Dodging a constant rotating carousel of adds from the outside rim that spew hearts that need to be dodged or they deal high damage + confusion, putting you in a vulnerable state for the ground aoes, the color mechanic, etc.

    Well over half of the Eureka bosses were literally just normal, open world mobs given 1 extra mechanic. The only ones even comparable to Critical engagements were the ones close to the zone's level cap, and even then a lot of them are super forgettable. This is even before the fact that Castrum's & Dalriada's bosses are basically on the same level as 24 man raid bosses in terms of mechanical design. That's also disregarding the duels that are leagues above anything in Eureka outside of Ozma in terms of mechanical design & complexity.

    Let's not keep our rose-tinted glasses on. Eureka had quantity in bosses due to more zones; whereas Bozja's bosses are much higher quality in fight design. There was even the fact a good majority of Eureka's bosses weren't even threatening if you were a caster or ranged, since half their mechanics couldn't even affect everyone at the NM due to the game's internal target limit on enemy attacks when you had like, 100+ people all targetting the poor thing.
    (8)
    Last edited by Daeriion_Aeradiir; 07-03-2021 at 04:32 AM.