Open World PvP

[Artemiz]

Because it comes at the cost of its core aspect: complexity. Casual Players dont care about this stuff, all they want is to have a good time and with as little investment as possible. It is like changing Chess to the point where every figure is removed and all you have left is just the King, and a horde of Queens, because anything else is way too complex. Can this still be called Chess, after those kind of changes?

I'm wondering if you and I just have a different understanding of what a casual is. To me a casual player is someone who doesn't necessarily play everyday and doesn't aim for the hardest content. It's not a permanent position though, I consider myself a casual now as I play maybe 3 days a week and am happy doing less time consuming stuff than the harder content, I used to do all that stuff but it can be time consuming and demanding.

Its a choice I made, and has everything to do with time and nothing really to do with class complexity. Im a casual in FFXI as well and that game is 10 times more complex than FFXIV has ever been.

[Caurcas]

Casual is just short for low investment, atleast in 14.

[Anhra]

I dunno, for me the core aspect of PVP is more about competitiveness, which doesn't necessarily come from complexity.

The thing is, the Competitive thing basically comes from itself, so the only thing you can do to influence it, is by adding variety in Game Modes, such as Open World PvP, Arena Matches, Duelling Rings or maybe even PvP Raids (basically contest Dungeons from other Players, some of the early MMOs had this), to name a few.

Now the complexity, is the entire lifeblood of PvP. With complexity, i mean how the Classes in the game are designed, how they work with the enviroment/other Players and if the possibility of alternative Playstyles exists. Now what exactly does that mean? It means that your Skills come with effects that have impact on combat without just dealing damage such as Slow effects, Stuns, Knockback Abilities, (De-)buffs, Skills that allow the Character to jump fixed distances instantly/delayed or straight up manipulate enemies/allies (for example, mind control from WoW or rescue from FFXIV), to name a handful. Those kind of skills are what allow Classes to have a certain Playstyle that is both responsive and dynamic and allows even specialist Jobs such as Healers, to actually put up a interesting and good fight despite damage not being its main thing.

Now with that Info being kept in mind, keep a look at FFXIV PvP. It has almost nothing of those kind of things at all. Most abilities are just raw healing/damaging abilities that sometimes trigger under specific conditions, with the assumption to keep bursting in check. To make matters worse, they even gave every Job Combat Potions which unnecessarily stall combat for way longer than it should, in a 1vs1 scenario.

If this game wants to have a functioning PvP enviroment, it needs to keep those things in mind, as well as design Jobs about individual performances aganist the other Jobs, in a way where the possibility of being able to defeat any of the other Jobs in a 1vs1 scenario exists. Anything else, such as Group Fights/Feast and Frontline's will automatically revolve arround those design choices on their own, so worrying about how specific Jobs work inside a Group enviroment comes second to individual performance (that does not mean it isnt important, since this too, is a important aspect (the Shai Class from Black Desert Online is a good example on that, as a form of reference) that can be the playstyle of a specific Job.

[Kes13a]

If this game wants to have a functioning PvP enviroment, it needs to keep those things in mind, as well as design Jobs about individual performances aganist the other Jobs, in a way where the possibility of being able to defeat any of the other Jobs in a 1vs1 scenario exists. Anything else, such as Group Fights/Feast and Frontline's will automatically revolve arround those design choices on their own, so worrying about how specific Jobs work inside a Group enviroment comes second to individual performance (that does not mean it isnt important, since this too, is a important aspect (the Shai Class from Black Desert Online is a good example on that, as a form of reference) that can be the playstyle of a specific Job.

so... basically, redesign all the jobs so pvpers, a small portion of the player base according to SE, can have their "fun"

because that hasnt made the classes a revolving door of bad design choices and unplayability in pve in other games such as WoW in search of... "balance"

yeah, thinking I am still a hard "no" for world pvp

[Avidria]

I keep seeing this. So why did you (and others) roll on a PvP server in the first place?

Easy. My raid group was there so I transferred to play with them.

See, the thing is, I actually enjoy pvp. On my terms when I'm in the mood for it. Playing on a pvp server sucked because it meant I had to change the way I played to avoid being dead every other time I have to step afk, and also meant more than one case of just... needing to stop what I was doing to wait out a group of people who were just flat camping a spot I needed to be at for a quest (and when I say group I mean like, this one time I came up on like. 40 people camping a world quest spot and just killing everyone coming close. It was stupid.). So, yeah. I don't play wow for open world pvp, if I want that I'll go play an actual pvp game.

For FFXIV in particular though, like... pvp in this game kinda sucks? Like it feels so clunky and awkward and unresponsive on every class I play, especially healers, and I play with very low ping and a very good system. Like idk what it is but there is nothing fun about the actual combat here? The most fun I have is just sitting on a white mage while like 5 people fail to kill me for an age and a half, which is both hilarious and stupid. Like idk what it is but FF probably has one of the most disappointing pvp systems of the MMOs I've played, and I'm counting Aion and BDO. At least fighting people there is fun, when they don't stupidly outgear you lmao

[hynaku]

We hardly get any new content now. they cut the amount of new dungeons we get so I doubt there going to spend the time to change all the class and other stuff for better pvp when they won't even fix the head gear for the viera. They won't even spend the money to upgrade the engine when the game engine is about maxed out.

[Awha]

Makes the choice to roll on a pvp server but gets annoyed when pvp happens.

Now that makes sense!

[Nanchi]

If the combat didn't suck as much in pvp I would be open for a pvp map that is located in the open world, not the entire open world.
The amount of times guilds chainblocked quest spots in other games to prevent players from advancing is staggering. Sadly pvp always has the nature of breeding trolls who are bored to death with their life and decide to make the game a living hell for a few targeted people. Now- if they changed the entire combat system around pvp, added meaningful CC, an actual dodge/disengage then maybe it could work, but not in its current state. I would love to see this game have meaningful pvp even if I don't participate often in it, it's a very popular game mode but looking at the community in general I'm not sure that even with an overhaul the mode would be played much.

[LunaJoy]

God please let me have the chance to ambush some poor sap running around the overworld and slap them with stuns, binds and interrupts. I would not hesitate to become the most obnoxious PvPer if open world PvP existed.

Welcome to the very reason we don’t want it

[Anhra]

so... basically, redesign all the jobs so pvpers, a small portion of the player base according to SE, can have their "fun"

because that hasnt made the classes a revolving door of bad design choices and unplayability in pve in other games such as WoW in search of... "balance"

So what? It is their responsibility to keep their target audience entertained, that is what eveyone in the FFXIV Team signed up for. The entirety of PvP has been redesigned once already, unfortunately for the worse.

Also, if you dont like PvP, dont bother with it, instead of constantly hissing and spitting hairballs at People who genuinely care for this type of content.