Open World PvP

[Roeshel]

It is actually

Griefing is fun only for people suffering from self-esteem issues. Schadenfreude, you need to google that.

[Anhra]

Yoshi already talked about open world PvP sometime around end of Stormblood. He said the devs could already just tag an area for PvP but they haven't done that in the live game cause there aren't enough people looking for that kind of content. Only 1/3 of the current PvP modes are active for 6-7 hours a day and rest of the modes only happen during ranked seasons/community events. Splitting the small PvP community into even more modes might be bad for all of the modes. Now it would be important that the new small scale PvP mode is a success because that would help with the problem that the only PvP happening actively is Frontline that requires 72 players that has no chance for it to pop before the daily reset.

The only reason why PvP isn't "active enough" is because of the casualisation which happened arround the beginning of heavensward iirc, which turned PvP what it is today. Those changes made 90% of the former PvP community leave, because of how bad the design of current PvP is.

The solution to this is quite simple, make PvP good and more people will begin to like it and maybe even stick with it beyond the promise of rewards.

[BaconBits]

Griefing is fun only for people suffering from self-esteem issues. Schadenfreude, you need to google that.

Spoken like someone that has never invaded in Dark Souls.

Have we made PvP great again yet?

Not until we get a silly hat that says "Make PvP Great Again!"

Personally, I'm torn between either a Flat Cap, or a Calfskin Cap.

[Artemiz]

Have we made PvP great again yet?

[Kes13a]

So if it's an entirely opt-in mode with no loophole, it should work well.

The other thing is there should be no other extrinsic reward for choosing to opt-in to OW-PVP, like increased exp. That way, people don't have to choose between wanting to do MSQ and gaining reward via opting in to that mode. Just like NG+, people would opt in to do PVP, not for other rewards.

There is a problem with this and that the nature of people themselves.

If there are no rewards, then people will complain its not well done. Not only that, but they have to be unique rewards or why bother pvping, so the people who pvp and are prone to doing so, will complain that the reason more people dont pvp is a lack of rewards...

No, I am not implying that pvpers are reward driven whiners, everyone is... if the thing you enjoy doing has little reward, then its garbage and will complain loudly. its a human trait, end of story.

[Kes13a]

The only reason why PvP isn't "active enough" is because of the casualusation which happened arround the beginning of heavensward iirc, which turned PvP what it is today. Those changes made 90% of the former PvP community leave, because of how bad the design of current PvP is.

The solution to this is quite simple, make PvP good and more people will begin to like it and maybe even stick with it beyond the promise of rewards.

can we stop with blaming casuals for everything?

here is a fact that maybe you ignore, prior to WoW you may have had a point. However, WoW changed gaming by catering to casuals to bring them into gaming for more money into their coffers. after years and years of changes in the gaming industry, blaming them for the current state of anything is wearing pretty thin. the industry is no longer after the niche hardcore gamers, why? because they arent the money... hardcore gamers jump from shiney to shiney faster than casuals, not because they are fickle, but because they feel they have done everything and want a new experience. you may have a poor view of casuals, but I would be willing to bet they have kept some of your favourite games going long past their expirey date.

Is pvp designed poorly, since its not a SE focus, I imagine it is, never tried it, why? because its not a pvp game. so saying that pvpers arent sticking around because of "casualization" is a bit silly since they are not sticking around because its not a pvp centric game. if you love action/war movies, chances are you are not going to go to a movie thats a romance. (and if you do, you are likely forced and will hate the entire experience) you cannot blame a group for that

[Anhra]

There is a problem with this and that the nature of people themselves.

If there are no rewards, then people will complain its not well done. Not only that, but they have to be unique rewards or why bother pvping, so the people who pvp and are prone to doing so, will complain that the reason more people dont pvp is a lack of rewards...

No, I am not implying that pvpers are reward driven whiners, everyone is... if the thing you enjoy doing has little reward, then its garbage and will complain loudly. its a human trait, end of story.

True PvP players dont care about item rewards, the only true reward, is being better than someone else. That is all there is to it.

Personally, i see PvP rewards in item- /title form mainly as bait for People driven by their Greed for mounts, glamour... you name it.

can we stop with blaming casuals for everything?

Is pvp designed poorly, since its not a SE focus, I imagine it is, never tried it, why? because its not a pvp game. so saying that pvpers arent sticking around because of "casualization" is a bit silly since they are not sticking around because its not a pvp centric game. if you love action/war movies, chances are you are not going to go to a movie thats a romance. (and if you do, you are likely forced and will hate the entire experience) you cannot blame a group for that

I blame casuals exactly for the reason you just mentioned. Everytime casuals demand changes so that they have a easier time on something and it goes horribly wrong, you just pull the "hurr durr Content X is not FFXIV main feature" card. Noone ever said that PvP has to be the main feature of the game, all we want is to have a properly working PvP Mode.

Casuals got their viera and hrothgar races, numerous hairstyles per REQUEST and the main focus of the entire Dev Team. Give me a break and let us PvPers have our own haven within the game, since we too, care for this game.

[Saito_S]

Griefing is fun only for people suffering from self-esteem issues. Schadenfreude, you need to google that.

This is really not a good take. And yeah, just hours ago I was bashing on van_arm, Theodric, and the other guy with the weeb name (yes, I know, pot and kettle, lol) that I can't remember at the moment, due to disagreeing with virtually everything they were saying. Nevertheless, "you have to have self-esteem issues to enjoy that" is a pretty big stretch at best, and honestly, Forum Diagnoses are rarely a good idea, and tend to make the diagnoser look worse than the diagnosee.

(Yes, I'm commenting on this one even tho I mostly let the "I was going to say sociopath" comment slide. This is because the sociopath comment really came across to me as just a joke; my impression here is that Roeshel is serious about the self-esteem comment. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I will be corrected.)

[Kes13a]

I blame casuals exactly for the reason you just mentioned. Everytime casuals demand changes so that they have a easier time on something and it goes horribly wrong, you just pull the "hurr durr Content X is not FFXIV main feature" card. Noone ever said that PvP has to be the main feature of the game, all we want is to have a properly working PvP Mode.

Casuals got their viera and hrothgar races, numerous hairstyles per REQUEST and the main focus of the entire Dev Team. Give me a break and let us PvPers have our own haven within the game, since we too, care for this game.

you are still blaming the wrong people.

"casuals" as your derogatory term seems to imply, includes a large grouping of people who feel entitled to something just because (pick any reason here)

as for content X not being a feature... I would go out on a limb here and say just that about pvp, is it a feature? of course, back in the day when FFXIV was first released pvp was put into everything, but even back then, it wasnt a focus. it is not a main feature, and as such, implmentation is not as simple as flipping a switch.

the fact here is pvpers have gotten a bad rap over the years with habits of a few and breaking classes due to whining about imbalance instead of learning their kit. Developers are incapable of making pvp changes without ruining pve usually. and who drives those changes in pvp focused games? well... the casual pvpers I guess.

so, whine about casuals all you want, but your casuals ruin as many things for you as mine do.

[Artemiz]

Big news everyone, the original post now has 9 likes, in only 27 pages!

Surely the developers must respond to this massive swell of public opinion and pull another 2.0 so we can all gank sprouts in the Black Shroud.