Open World PvP

[SannaR]

Its possible. The only thing more neglected than PvP is GC ranking and that's pretty close. They add PvP battle grounds and people do them til that they get the reward then no more. PvP is like a hidden feature, besides the Garo event, all you get is the season start and end announcement, no campaigns, no events. All they really have to do is put the rewards somewhere else and you could cull a lot of the backlash.

Want to know what also gets less attention and love from the devs? Chocobo racing. It used to be attended to like the weddings. Where only one person was assigned to it. The Weddings got some help meanwhile the one guy on chocobo racing got moved off to a battle team section.

I know which between pvp and racing has gotten more attention from the dev team and its not the one centered around birbs. Still wouldn't want a non opt in pvp mode. Also think people should wait and see what the new mode they're going to be putting in is and how it works before asking for something more or different. As you've said if you give a big enough carrot people who normally don't pvp will pvp just for the rewards. Heck people will pvp as a means to help in leveling.

[Dragonblanco]

A casual is by definition someone who irregulary plays the game whenever he/she feels like it and only aims for a uncorncerned and relaxed playstyle. This is not MY definition about them, but the way how it is as a matter of fact. And i despise the thought that difficult content gets dumbed down for those kind of people, just so that they can continue to play half-heartedly.

I know Artemiz kind of responded, but I will jump in there. A casual is just someone who casually plays. They might be someone who goes to college, works full time, and has a life outside of the game. They play when they can but can't log in a whole bunch of hours. I mean, we sometimes call people at this extreme a "filthy casual" but they are casuals nonetheless. I actually know people like this, some of them in the military. They want to be on but they get shipped out on missions and sometimes in places with no internet connection. So they will go days, weeks, or months without being able to play. Then when they get back and able to play, they go as hardcore as their schedule allow them.

Then there are people who have obligations but nothing as significant as previously mentioned. They take care of real life obligations and then hit the game when they can in their spare time. It doesn't equate to as much as they may like, but they get on for their 1-2 hours a day, maybe more on the weekends or days off.

Lastly, there are people like me who are disabled and have absolutely no life. Consider us NEET or whatever, but we spend 8-16 hours a day playing FFXIV.

Now, how would you suggest you'd release content that would make the game enjoyable to all of these people? That's the challenge. I think FFXIV has done a very good job in that, by trying to do synced dungeons, roulettes, etc. They try to keep more active and higher leveled players interacting with others so we can all progress. But they also add in things like Extreme content and all to keep the people with more time busy as well. I'm not sure what you're calling "dumbed down" but I do know they try to keep things balanced. Hardest tier stays hard for everyone but once it's no longer most difficult content or they are about to release next phase of stuff, they sometimes make it simpler so newer people can get geared and ready. They don't want people stuck trying to gear up for months just to get into new content. They want to make sure we ALL can find groups and advance, not get stuck lagging behind others with nobody to help.

[NW3]

I mean, SE doesn't have to follow everything that Blizzard does. WoW has it's own PvP, which get more focus, and that's fine. FFXIV has it's own PvP, a side content which doesn't get a lot of focus, and that's fine too. SE just happen to focus on other contents in FFXIV.

Remember that we'll get new PvP contents next expansion. Let's just wait and see how it goes. I'm actually curious since they said it's a small scale one, and I would be glad to see another small scale PvP outside of Feast (and hopefully more to do than simply trying to kill each other).

I don’t know why it’s fine? Dude, open your eyes. They gave you one less Frontline gear set reward last expansion. That is fine? You talk casual PvP, but you're paying to log on to this game to PvP. Unlike real casual PvP games like LoL or Valorant that are free to play, is it not somewhat an obligation to get an AAA MMORPG PvP experience? I only said WoW because it's their only competitor atm with the exception of Ashes of Creation, also subscription-based, but it's not even AAA. I think it's unfair that you argue to reduce further the already reduced AAA PvP experience FFXIV once offered. On top of this, everyone says PvP is an afterthought (that's my word, you should read what they're really saying). If you are on Twitch, hear what people say about FFXIV PvP. I don’t think you’re being fair and honest with yourself here. Personally, I think they’re refining some things but they’ve taken away the progression, not listening to the community’s pleas regarding cheating, they took away from players that enjoyed every facet their game had to offer.

I must reiterate that if you hear what people say about FFXIV PvP and are honest with yourself and fair to me, an equally paying customer, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I’m not asking them to take anything away from PvE. That's the main ride. That wouldn’t be right.

They aren’t a small team, and I’m confident they can give PvP a little more attention.

[Fland]

I don’t know why it’s fine? Dude, open your eyes. They gave you one less Frontline gear set reward last expansion. That is fine? You talk casual PvP, but you're paying to log on to this game to PvP. Unlike real casual PvP games like LoL or Valorant that are free to play, is it not somewhat an obligation to get an AAA MMORPG PvP experience? I only said WoW because it's their only competitor atm with the exception of Ashes of Creation, also subscription-based, but it's not even AAA. I think it's unfair that you argue to reduce further the already reduced AAA PvP experience FFXIV once offered. On top of this, everyone says PvP is an afterthought (that's my word, you should read what they're really saying). If you are on Twitch, hear what people say about FFXIV PvP. I don’t think you’re being fair and honest with yourself here. Personally, I think they’re refining some things but they’ve taken away the progression, not listening to the community’s pleas regarding cheating, they took away from players that enjoyed every facet their game had to offer.

I must reiterate that if you hear what people say about FFXIV PvP and are honest with yourself and fair to me, an equally paying customer, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I’m not asking them to take anything away from PvE. That's the main ride. That wouldn’t be right.

They aren’t a small team, and I’m confident they can give PvP a little more attention.

I agree that we get less PvP gears for glamours this expansion, but that's because we get reduced content overall in the game due to the pandemic, so it's understandable.

And yes it's fine that PvP does not get as much focus as PvE because, as have been mentioned multiple times in this thread, this game is not a PvP-oriented MMO. It would get about as much focus as the other side contents.

I also disagree that just because this is a subscription-based MMO, it has to have the same level of PvP with the other subscription-based MMOs. Every subs-based MMO has their own strength, FFXIV just happen to be not it's PvP. I don't know why people subscribe to this game expecting the same level of PvP as WoW when they have never implied this would be the case.

Could they give more focus to PvP? Sure. Would they? At this point, I don't think so.
We just have to wait for the new PvP contents in EW and see how the playerbase responds to it.

[Almagnus1]

I agree that we get less PvP gears for glamours this expansion, but that's because we get reduced content overall in the game due to the pandemic, so it's understandable.

Simple solution:

Bring back the Garo event.

[StarRosie]

Simple solution:

Bring back the Garo event.

Yeeeeeeesssssssss! I need Gouten. As a huge Garo fan, not getting Gouten is a huge regret

[NW3]

Look, just because you create an account on a pvp server and want to do it doesn't mean you want to deal with griefing and everything. PvP server means while questing and you see someone you can kill of equal or near equal level, you may end up fighting each other. Or you may end up getting together with friends to go raid a major town. Things like that. But for a lv 80 to go kill lv 10s and camp them, continuously camping just to grief/troll...that's not what a pvp server is about. I mean, I'd be okay with them going and killing someone time or two when they see them, I mean, it's your enemy and why not? But there's always a limit and general idea of respect in these games. People who lose track of that respect for players and forget it's a game, that people need to level and do stuff too...they shouldn't be on these types of platforms. Just my thoughts anyway. I don't get why people want to be complete jerks and then say "you're on a pvp server, that means I can grief you all I want! Go cry to your mama!" or similar stuff...

So devs are taking penalty away from deaths now. They make PvP more and more forgiving. You die in Dark Souls. You die in League of Legends. You die in Call of Duty. You die in CS and Valorant.

Please don’t tell me it’s only the FFXIV community that’s that soft. You’re now telling me on a PvP server it’s wrong to be assassinated, for example, because that’s what say, a Ninja in FFXIV would do? It’s wrong for a BLM to nuke you from afar while you’re exploring the open world on a PvP server? Now it’s coming to this?

I don't even care for PvP servers or Open World PvP, just a little more attention in the PvP department, but you guys are asking them to keep ignoring some of the existing problems it has. Is that a problem for you?

Man.

E: Do me a favor, go on Twitch and ask about FFXIV PvP. I'm not going to just sit here and keep hearing the things I hear about it. I'm not trying to kill PvE either - the main attraction.

[Dragonblanco]

So devs are taking penalty away from deaths now. They make PvP more and more forgiving.

Please don’t tell me it’s only the FFXIV community that’s that soft. You’re now telling me on a PvP server it’s wrong to be assassinated, for example, because that’s what say, a Ninja in FFXIV would do? It’s wrong for a BLM to nuke you from afar while you’re exploring the open world on a PvP server? Now it’s coming to this?

People complained on WoW too. Nobody liked to be camped. The way WoW worked at least when I played it is you could toggle PVP on or off, but only when you were in your territory. When quests took you to neutral territory, part of MSQ, that's where griefing would happen left and right. You couldn't shut off PvP and community had died. So you'd be in Outlands trying to level and idiots would just come out and camp. You couldn't do anything and no higher levels would come out to fight them off. It killed the game for newer players as it prevented them from actually accomplishing anything.

Similar issues happened when I played ArcheAge Unchained. Too many higher levels camped low level towns and it became nonstop. Eventually higher levels stopped wanting to protect and you were left with no choice but to be screwed and unable to advance in leveling or questing. Obviously I have a lot to say about people who are unskilled and only able to pick on the "weak" and new players. They aren't looking for pvp but instead just wanting a way to be able to bully people to make up for their own insecurities.

Just because a person doesn't lose experience or items upon death doesn't mean it's okay to die, come back, get killed again, and repeat for hours on end until you just decide to log out for the day or have to go do side content elsewhere because some idiot is camping areas they KNOW people have to go for MSQ. Again, I didn't say it's wrong for pvp. I said it's wrong when people abuse it and have no respect for other players.

Btw, other thing I pointed out about FFXIV in a different comment is open world pvp doesn't work with our story. Everyone is allies. They'd have to rewrite to let people somehow be part of the Garlean Empire or would have to do something like Pirate faction in WoW and ArcheAge. So if they could figure out how to make it work with lore, be able to prevent people from camping/griefing low level players, etc I'd be all for it. But otherwise it just has no place here. Again, it's about keeping with lore and the type of community they are trying to build in FFXIV. For people who want more pvp, go to the games for it. Just means games like FFXIV isn't for you.

[Bright-Flower]

I feel like design wise it just wouldn't work in FFXIV. Not with the way pvp is now anyway. World pvp doesn't need be balanced. It is, inherently, unfair. But with them splitting off pvp ENTIRELY into isolated zones, to the point where your abilities and stats are all different etc in pvp, it wouldn't meld seamlessly. It's one thing in WoW where you have some extra pvp talents but that's about it. In FFXIV you would have entirely different hotbars and skills. And because of the hard pve/pvp split in ffxiv, no effort is put into balancing theoretical pve skillsets against eachother. Because all of the pvp balancing is focused on the pvp templates. In WoW pvp isn't balanced around 1v1, but the pvp balance isn't so inherently divorced from pve because there isn't that hard line binary separation there.

They would have to put in a massive amount of effort into making the pve skill sets function in a pvp environment before it would even be feasible to allow outdoor pvp in FFXIV. And while this is partly FFXIV's fault for having had lackluster pvp in general, I don't think the game really has the pvp audience to justify that effort.

A pvp sandbox zone could be fun. Like say, a Bozja/Eureka type instance where you queue in and run around and fight eachother with the pvp skillsets in place could be fun. One where not a lot of dev time was invested, but more a fun place to run around and fight. But I don't think it's worth their dev time to work open world pvp into the actual world zones, even if they added separate pvp servers for it.

[Eldevern]

Somehow, I have the feeling some people here forget that FFXIV has never pretended to be PVP oriented. You... subscribe without taking any information about the game, how it works and the content? Since the bêta we know it is not Open World PVP. Since the beta we know that PVP is only a side content.

We can dislike the balance between jobs, the maps but... to complain... to not getting what you are paying for when EVERYTHING you need to know is on the Lodestone? That's kinda...