Paladin balance changes suggestions

[Shougun]

In general I quite like clemency as it is unlike the other tank cures in a way that I think is pretty nifty- clemency can be spammed, timed, and targeted like no other. That said, if SE could find a way to occasionally allow you to weave it in during non-emergency situations in such a way that your healer wont be trying to hit you with their staff - that could be also... neat.. lol. Also if such a mechanic existed healers in general would rage less at it's existence. I follow the 'emergency only' rule, but you may get a particularly risky healer with a person dead your health at 20% theirs at 15% and they're still upset you decided to help . Yet then again, maybe they would have been upset no matter what /shrug.

Of course saying all that is like "I want to have and eat my cake too". Personally have suggested a mechanic that builds up an attack, because personally I'm enjoying the Crusader and big crunch spell ideas (I don't really want to see same skill spam, as much as possible- leave fel cleave to the warrior, but I adore Confiteor as an occasionally big wallop of beauty). Another more suggestion I've seen, more simple but therefore feasible is just simply allow clemency to occasionally buff your next magic attack, or something of that effect. So you could weave in one clemency in your requiescat without it being a dps loss.

Paladin isn't really designed to 'have' to use their clemency, like you'd be slapped if you're just sitting on Aurora all day because why are you just sitting on that? lol, and it just comes out as an extra tool for niche situations, to be honest Paladin seems to be one that comes with a number of extra tools for the sake of flavor. If my choice was between a few slightly weird scenario tools but they hit flavor and feel unique vs no extra tools but they all always have a situation of use. . . then I'd probably go for the first every time. It's a bit unfortunate sometimes to have to explain that some abilities are not meant to be used all the time, and it would be cool to be able to feel more free to use more of the kit, but.... if the office at SE is arguing whether to make clemency exactly like the others because people are complaining I'd rather they keep it unique.

They should get rid of the now useless crossclass system. . .

There were some moments in the past where it produced some neat feelings, with consequences of which are why it was watered down as it is now, but at this point I feel the cross class system offers nothing but a lack of individual identity (and perhaps budget friendly design, but that's a bonus for SE- not us lol). Minor differences in spells could add some extra flavor here and there, yet even in the situation where the spell effect is exactly the same in mechanics the icon and special effect being different would be better, currently it's all smashed together unfortunately (like shadowskin dying to rampart, or leeches to esuna). At the point that it helps players understand other jobs.. I feel like only consistent verbiage in the spells is necessary, if a player doesn't understand that a spell description that says "provokes the enemy" then they weren't going to get it in the title of the ability either.

I've had fun with such systems before both sRPG and MMORPG; however, at this point for FFXIV, I really don't think the system does the game any favors. Big fan for seeing it go. If it wasn't for all the lore issues making it annoying to do so, I'd also say may as well bounce all the classes too - so we can have even better job identity (classes are written into the game in many many locations, what a nightmare to smoothly retcon that).

This is how it already works though. You flash PoA and it applies immediately and for 5 seconds. All buffs that don't have timer on them last at least for 5 seconds. If you are channeling PoA you are using it wrong.

It's fine to do the snapshot thing (skilled if you time it right, embarrassing if you didn't :P), but I thought one way to encourage getting to enjoy the animation more is by attaching a dancer / summoner like ability swap when in use that allows the Paladin to pick between a few different interactions. Might have something like dealing potency to your target, or in an aoe, may add extra elements like slight mitigation boosting or area increasing, maybe tempered will applies to everyone inside the cone (when used, this actually was the original suggestion I had a long time ago before PoA, winged ability that allows Paladin to add mitigation and activates tempered will lol). At least personally a slight shame not to get to enjoy it's glory for much time. Special effect associated with such actions could be pretty cool too, light arcing off your wings and making baby terra flare (if thinking of AoE attacks), striking your shield with the sword hand to create holy shockwaves forward (perhaps with the energy forming from the wings and traveling down into the shield creating a starcraft yamato cannon like visual), etc.

[kaynide]

Is this just another “Remove Clemency Plz” thread?

Opinions on how it is used aside, when used well there are no issues with this ability.

[ReynTime]

Clemency is fine. Please don't touch it.
I love what remainds of the versatility of PLDs compared to how rigid other jobs are now.

[Jennah]

Not everything has to be balanced around Ultimate Raiding.

Even if Paladin was as bad as you say - and it's nowhere remotely close to that - it's still the best tank, by far, to clear, say, Expert Roulette with, in case you have a terrible healer.
And that would be a valuable niche too.

[AbremSev]

Not everything has to be balanced around Ultimate Raiding.

Even if Paladin was as bad as you say - and it's nowhere remotely close to that - it's still the best tank, by far, to clear, say, Expert Roulette with, in case you have a terrible healer.
And that would be a valuable niche too.

What part of "outside of normal content" (paraphrase) did you not get? Paladin is extremely overpowered in normal content. It's only underpowered in like 1% of the games content where they have to eat auto attacks over a long period of time from a raid boss that slaps. There's also no reason for it not be balanced better for raid content either.

[Larirawiel]

What part of "outside of normal content" (paraphrase) did you not get? Paladin is extremely overpowered in normal content. It's only underpowered in like 1% of the games content where they have to eat auto attacks over a long period of time from a raid boss that slaps. There's also no reason for it not be balanced better for raid content either.

Hi, the problem is, when you start to balance the classes for every content then the consequence will be, that most classes will lose their identity and uniqueness. Exactly that happened in WoW Retail. My tank paladin, my marksman hunter, my enhancement shaman, my moonkin druid and my demon warlock have the exact(!) same game play mechanics. You spam 2 cheap abilities and you wait for a procc. When the procc applies then you use an other ability which is now stronger or much cheaper than without the procc. Only my discipline priest has a different gameplay mechanics. The WoW players wanted an almost perfect balance and Blizzard delivered it. With the consequence that the differences between the classes are different colors and different icons of their abilities.


Cheers

[AbremSev]

Hi, the problem is, when you start to balance the classes for every content then the consequence will be, that most classes will lose their identity and uniqueness. Exactly that happened in WoW Retail. My tank paladin, my marksman hunter, my enhancement shaman, my moonkin druid and my demon warlock have the exact(!) same game play mechanics. You spam 2 cheap abilities and you wait for a procc. When the procc applies then you use an other ability which is now stronger or much cheaper than without the procc. Only my discipline priest has a different gameplay mechanics. The WoW players wanted an almost perfect balance and Blizzard delivered it. With the consequence that the differences between the classes are different colors and different icons of their abilities.


Cheers

You know I agree that homogenization is bad but none of the changes I suggested would do that. Clemency wouldn't suddenly become TBN. Passage would still be way different from HoL, Dark Missionary and Shake it Off. (Requiring the group to be stacked behind the tank to use.) Basically Job identity would still be preserved.

[Vyrerus]

Has this "issue" stopped players from clearing the fights you're talking about? No.

Has this "issue" stopped players from taking PLD over other tanks? No.

Clearly it's not as much of an issue as you believe it to be, you silly piggy.

[AbremSev]

Has this "issue" stopped players from clearing the fights you're talking about? No.

Has this "issue" stopped players from taking PLD over other tanks? No.

Clearly it's not as much of an issue as you believe it to be, you silly piggy.

Did you read any of my posts where I said it wasn't preventing Paladins from clearing or choosing Paladin? It's an annoyance that costs extra GCD's, the fact that it's not a huge issue doesn't mean it couldn't use a small fix.

Your post can be summed up in "I don't care that you're a healer and that you have to drop extra GCDs just because Paladin exists in certain content."

[Curisu]

Paladin has by far the best support healing of all tanks.
Yes, normally you don't use it but when you have to use it then you got the strongest single heal spell of all classes

Yes, he has no self-healing in his normal rotation but when something goes wrong then you have the PLD as 3rd healer.
And that is something I like about the class.
I can't count the amount of runs and further progress I've saved/ enabled just because I can full heal a DPS with 1 clemency from 10% to 100% while healing myself for a lot.

If it's needed PLD has the strongest healing of all tanks.