Paladin balance changes suggestions

[AbremSev]

1) Clemency needs some changes. It's too strong when it's used in normal content and because the job is balanced around using it, it makes Paladin too weak compared to the other tanks when it's not used in high end content. This is bad for Savage/Ultimate because no Paladin actually uses Clemency. I believe this job should be adjusted for how players actually play the game rather than how the devs think Paladin should be played because right now it's just annoying for healers to deal with in fights like TEA and Leviathan Unreal. My suggestion is to make Clemency an ogcd and give it a set number of regenerating charges.

2) Paladins are lacking in CDs for personal mitigation. In UCOB any time my group had a Paladin we always generated an entire extra bar of LB gauge just for having a Paladin in the group. That's how much additional damage Paladin takes compared to other tanks. I'm guessing Paladin has fewer mitigation CDs because their Clemency is so powerful. This kind of ends up going back to my first point, Paladins don't actually use Clemency outside of normal content.

3) I'd like for Passage of Arms to get the same fix as AST's Collective Unconsciousness instead of needing to be channeled. The ability is already limited by the need to be positioned behind the PLD when it's used and right now it's just janky and not as competitive with the more versatile and consistently useful Heart of Light, Shake and Dark Missionary.

HPS by tank as of patch 5.5 (Self healing)

WAR-5.5k
DRK- 3.5k
GNB- 2.5k
PLD- 0k

Sure, everything is doable with a Paladin and most of the time it's not a problem. However any time a fight does large amounts of sustained tank damage over a long period of time it becomes really apparent just how bad Paladin actually is right now compared to the other tanks.

EDIT: If any mechanic in savage causes you guys to drop even just one GCD you all scream bloody freaking murder, but when a single job causes me to drop 5-6 GCD's vs other jobs it's nothing but shitposting from you guys. Imagine how you would react if bringing a DNC to a fight would cause you personally to lose 5 GCDs. PLD is squishy. I'm losing uptime, and I'm suggesting fixes. PLD right now is worth less than a GNB straight up failing to use Camo and Aurora and it costs me. That's how bad PLD is right now in certain fights.

If your post is some variation of

1) "Paladin doesn't need to be balanced at the high end because it's not content I care about"
2) "It doesn't need a fix because you're just a healer and I don't care if you lose GCDs"

Then please don't post here.

[Ilenya]

I...I don't think Paladin is "balanced" around using Clemency... Also Paladins by default have a mitigation tool the other tanks don't have, for what that is worth overall.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Wut. Shelltron lasts for 6s. it can last for multiple hits easily when timed. Use 100 gauge and you can get 12s.

[AbremSev]

I...I don't think Paladin is "balanced" around using Clemency... Also Paladins by default have a mitigation tool the other tanks don't have, for what that is worth overall.

Well it's just Paladins are a lot more of a pain to heal in certain content in the game than any other tank. Why would the devs give a self-sustain tool to Paladins if they didn't want Paladins to use it? Like clearly the spell exists for Paladins to actually use. This coupled with the fact that without using clemency they're just so much worse than the other tanks at taking autos makes it apparent that the job was at some point balanced around using Clemency.

[Vidu]

Well it's just Paladins are a lot more of a pain to heal in certain content in the game than any other tank. Why would the devs give a sus-sustain tool to Paladins if they didn't want Paladins to use it? Like clearly the spell exists for Paladins to actually use. This coupled with the fact that without using clemency they're just so much worse than the other tanks at taking autos makes it apparent that the job was at some point balanced around using Clemency.

You should look at Clemency the same way you look at a raise-skill for healers, RDMs and summoners: Its there to be used when stuff goes wrong, not on a regular basis.
The fact that we have Holy Spirit to spend mana on to deal damage is a very, very clear nodge that Clemency is not to be used regularly, but situational (healer is dead, healer is overwhelmed, healer is not paying attention and someone is about to die, healer is not paying attention but divine veil needs to be triggered...)

You wouldnt argue that a healer should let party memebers die, just because they have rescuret - and why would they have it and be able to cast it all the time if the devs didnt intend for them to use it, right?

[AbremSev]

You should look at Clemency the same way you look at a raise-skill for healers, RDMs and summoners: Its there to be used when stuff goes wrong, not on a regular basis.
The fact that we have Holy Spirit to spend mana on to deal damage is a very, very clear nodge that Clemency is not to be used regularly, but situational (healer is dead, healer is overwhelmed, healer is not paying attention and someone is about to die, healer is not paying attention but divine veil needs to be triggered...)

You wouldnt argue that a healer should let party memebers die, just because they have rescuret - and why would they have it and be able to cast it all the time if the devs didnt intend for them to use it, right?

See that argument would hold water if Clemency couldn't be used to accomplish both, it's not a one or other thing like raise. If you were to compare the mana dump of holy spirit to another job's abilities the better comparison would be SCH's energy drain. Just because a Scholar can dump all their stacks into energy drain doesn't mean they should, or that the rest of their healing kit isn't supposed to be used. The two things aren't mutually exclusive in this case. Also consider why Paladin is the last pick for MT in any high end content scenario. It's because they're just so much weaker than the other tanks nobody ever wants them to MT. Now consider that Clemency exists.

[Vidu]

See that argument would hold water if Clemency couldn't be used to accomplish both. The two things aren't mutually exclusive in this case. Also consider why Paladin is the last pick for MT in any high end content scenario. It's because they're just so much weaker than the other tanks nobody ever wants them to MT. Now consider that Clemency exists.

I dont think Paladin is less picked as a MT because the job is weak(er), but because they make for better OTs with their current toolkit - which has been the case for a couple of expansions now and isnt really a problem in my book?

Besides: Even if paladin might be a slightly worse choice for MT, its still absolutly possible to have a paladin MT - as is pretty much any party combination in the game. People really need to get unstuck on their meta and thinking that just because the meta dictates something, thats the only way to do it...

I'm half expecting paladin to become a dedicated OT with Endwalkers, to be honest (and again: Nothing wrong with that and no, you're still not expected to use Clemency to heal yourself. Thats an "oh shit"-button. Which is fine.)

[Delis]

Who told you Paladins are balanced around using x amount of Clemency per min? Paladins for mitigation, has sheltron which we can pretty much spam, rampart, sentinal, passage of arms and Hallowed Ground (imo the best tank invuln)

[Jijifli]

Uh...

Yes man, we're all just playing Paladin wrong, even in top play, you have the big brain on how it's played.