Ivalice may not continue

[Liam_Harper]

I very much enjoyed the Ivalice storyline and raids, so it's surprising to see how unpopular they were. Especially things like "half assed" when there's definitely more work put into it than Eureka or some of the older raids. It feels like it's one of those things that's trendy to hate because it's "not true to the original", but I could be wrong. Either way I enjoyed it.

I'm personally not a fan of unfinished storylines though. Bozja was clearly set up to continue with further story development. We had Hildebrand scrapped too when that was clearly set up to have a ShB arc and the United Beast tribe quest was scrapped. It's not a good sign. Story is meant to be the selling point of the game.

[Jandor]

I very much enjoyed the Ivalice storyline and raids, so it's surprising to see how unpopular they were. Especially things like "half assed" when there's definitely more work put into it than Eureka or some of the older raids. It feels like it's one of those things that's trendy to hate because it's "not true to the original", but I could be wrong. Either way I enjoyed it.

Most of the people who dislike it seem to be people who have no knowledge of the original, it's really rather impenetrable for a newcomer.

I suppose it did try though, did better than Nier at least, that one got around the issue of newcomers not having any idea what's happening by just not having any story worth caring about. Man, I just don't think I'll ever stop being salty about that raid.

[KuroMaboroshi]

Most of the people who dislike it seem to be people who have no knowledge of the original, it's really rather impenetrable for a newcomer.

I suppose it did try though, did better than Nier at least, that one got around the issue of newcomers not having any idea what's happening by just not having any story worth caring about. Man, I just don't think I'll ever stop being salty about that raid.

Obviously I am committing an informal fallacy here, but while that may or may not be true across the board, I don't think Return to Ivalice (and as a result Save the Queen) had an inherent entry barrier for people not familiar with it. I have never touched FF Tactics or XII, and I had no problem following and enjoying the story. It was not a masterpiece (though I think between Return and Save the Queen the overall writing got much better), but it was no better or worse or more or less hard to grasp than previous Alliance Raids and exploration zones.

For me personally it came down to the integration with the world. I don't know which plot points are just copied from XII and Tactics, so I don't care that they are, and what I found in both pieces written by Matsuno was very enjoyable to someone like me who loves to dive into the lore of the world. There were no obvious "seams" where I would notice something was copied over in terms of writing, and the game did a decent job of catching me up on all the important information that is relevant for understanding Ivalice in XIV. So as far as this game is concerned, it felt sufficiently self-contained. (Concession though, I did read the Encyclopedia 2 which expanded upon Dalmasca before Save the Queen rolled around, so that might colour my perception of this second half of the story we got)

Which is why I find the unfavourable comparison with CT someone made earlier baffling. CT is merely more relevant to the events of the MSQ, as information about Allag has a much larger influence on the world overall. But Ivalice was no more or less fitting than, let's say Hingashi or Southern Ilsabard at this point, though all play relatively minor roles in the MSQ. But that's fine, it's a side quest and while tying CT so heavily into the main story in Shadowbringers worked out great (and I'm favour of them doing it again), things don't have to be to fit well. I guess it just feels that way to some people cause they don't have to pay attention as much, and if they then decide not to, Matsuno's writing style is pretty incompatible with that.

Also, amen on Dark Apocalypse being a disaster. The direct comparison with Matsuno's work in XIV just makes YoRHa look so much worse, not that it didn't look bad enough to begin with.

[Jandor]

Obviously I am committing an informal fallacy here, but while that may or may not be true across the board, I don't think Return to Ivalice (and as a result Save the Queen) had an inherent entry barrier for people not familiar with it. I have never touched FF Tactics or XII, and I had no problem following and enjoying the story. It was not a masterpiece (though I think between Return and Save the Queen the overall writing got much better), but it was no better or worse or more or less hard to grasp than previous Alliance Raids and exploration zones.

It has been ages since I played it, but if I recall correctly I was turned off by all the info it just dumps on you in rather long and boring cutscenes. I guess maybe it's far more popular among tactics & XII players because that info is more like a refresher for them, but for me at least it felt like a lot of poorly presented contextless fluff.

I like reading and I like this games lore and story, and still my eyes were glazing over at some points. As I said, I don't hate it or anything, but I doubt I'll ever really get the love some people have for it either.

True mass appeal comes in offering something for everybody. Just as a good restaurant will have an extensive and varied menu, a good MMO will bring multiple things to the table. Yet recently it seems like more and more content is being cut away from the game altogether.

Good restaurants don't really have that extensive and varied a menu though... they'll offer a reasonable selection within their area of expertise but will still generally focus on one type of food. Not that I disagree with the point, I'm just being pedantic about the analogy

[ItMe]

It has been ages since I played it, but if I recall correctly I was turned off by all the info it just dumps on you in rather long and boring cutscenes. I guess maybe it's far more popular among tactics & XII players because that info is more like a refresher for them, but for me at least it felt like a lot of poorly presented contextless fluff.

I've played through Tactics and I didn't care for the rather long and boring cutscenes either, and not just because little of what I liked about Tactics was brought into FF14.
Half the time I was all "I know this, get to the point where I play," only for the playing to be strongarmed into an extended fetchquest to get overpriced wine for an unpleasant NPC.

[Iscah]

It has been ages since I played it, but if I recall correctly I was turned off by all the info it just dumps on you in rather long and boring cutscenes. I guess maybe it's far more popular among tactics & XII players because that info is more like a refresher for them, but for me at least it felt like a lot of poorly presented contextless fluff.

I like reading and I like this games lore and story, and still my eyes were glazing over at some points. As I said, I don't hate it or anything, but I doubt I'll ever really get the love some people have for it either.

All of this. I usually like and absorb worldbuilding stuff but somehow Ivalice feels impenetrable. Lots of tell-not-show and half the information they give you adds nothing to what you need to know for the story itself.

I think "too many moving parts" is the best way to sum it up. Lots of names and places without any visual concept to pin to them.

Half the time I was all "I know this, get to the point where I play," only for the playing to be strongarmed into an extended fetchquest to get overpriced wine for an unpleasant NPC.

Unless it's somehow critically important that this event has happened in future story, I'd really like to see that bit shifted into a sidequest. It's totally disconnected from the rest of the plot.