Ivalice may not continue

[ReynTime]

Honestly i’d love this option. He’d be less likely to give in to pandering to the community as well, He likes to write his own stories and doesn’t like to let anyone influence the outcome unlike what we’ve seen with msq over and over. I personally love his story themes and ideals so i’d be willing to give it a fair chance if it ever happened in the future for sure.

Well, not trying to defend Yoshida or the writing team, because I'm not a fan of that kind of shift either, but I think the fundamental difference between him and Matsuno is that Yoshida is ultimately really trying to appeal to the masses as much as he can. Which makes him technically a really good producer, after all that's what his job is for, to ensure maximum return is generated from his product and that they get all the resources they need for that.
One is a very good producer. The other is a good creator. It's like the difference between... Shuntaro Furukawa and Satoru Iwata. Similar positions (CEOs) with the same long-term goal but very different philosophies (one thinks strictly as a financial analyst and the other came from being hands-on with game creation).

[Liam_Harper]

I very much enjoyed the Ivalice storyline and raids, so it's surprising to see how unpopular they were. Especially things like "half assed" when there's definitely more work put into it than Eureka or some of the older raids. It feels like it's one of those things that's trendy to hate because it's "not true to the original", but I could be wrong. Either way I enjoyed it.

I'm personally not a fan of unfinished storylines though. Bozja was clearly set up to continue with further story development. We had Hildebrand scrapped too when that was clearly set up to have a ShB arc and the United Beast tribe quest was scrapped. It's not a good sign. Story is meant to be the selling point of the game.

[Jandor]

I very much enjoyed the Ivalice storyline and raids, so it's surprising to see how unpopular they were. Especially things like "half assed" when there's definitely more work put into it than Eureka or some of the older raids. It feels like it's one of those things that's trendy to hate because it's "not true to the original", but I could be wrong. Either way I enjoyed it.

Most of the people who dislike it seem to be people who have no knowledge of the original, it's really rather impenetrable for a newcomer.

I suppose it did try though, did better than Nier at least, that one got around the issue of newcomers not having any idea what's happening by just not having any story worth caring about. Man, I just don't think I'll ever stop being salty about that raid.

[KuroMaboroshi]

Most of the people who dislike it seem to be people who have no knowledge of the original, it's really rather impenetrable for a newcomer.

I suppose it did try though, did better than Nier at least, that one got around the issue of newcomers not having any idea what's happening by just not having any story worth caring about. Man, I just don't think I'll ever stop being salty about that raid.

Obviously I am committing an informal fallacy here, but while that may or may not be true across the board, I don't think Return to Ivalice (and as a result Save the Queen) had an inherent entry barrier for people not familiar with it. I have never touched FF Tactics or XII, and I had no problem following and enjoying the story. It was not a masterpiece (though I think between Return and Save the Queen the overall writing got much better), but it was no better or worse or more or less hard to grasp than previous Alliance Raids and exploration zones.

For me personally it came down to the integration with the world. I don't know which plot points are just copied from XII and Tactics, so I don't care that they are, and what I found in both pieces written by Matsuno was very enjoyable to someone like me who loves to dive into the lore of the world. There were no obvious "seams" where I would notice something was copied over in terms of writing, and the game did a decent job of catching me up on all the important information that is relevant for understanding Ivalice in XIV. So as far as this game is concerned, it felt sufficiently self-contained. (Concession though, I did read the Encyclopedia 2 which expanded upon Dalmasca before Save the Queen rolled around, so that might colour my perception of this second half of the story we got)

Which is why I find the unfavourable comparison with CT someone made earlier baffling. CT is merely more relevant to the events of the MSQ, as information about Allag has a much larger influence on the world overall. But Ivalice was no more or less fitting than, let's say Hingashi or Southern Ilsabard at this point, though all play relatively minor roles in the MSQ. But that's fine, it's a side quest and while tying CT so heavily into the main story in Shadowbringers worked out great (and I'm favour of them doing it again), things don't have to be to fit well. I guess it just feels that way to some people cause they don't have to pay attention as much, and if they then decide not to, Matsuno's writing style is pretty incompatible with that.

Also, amen on Dark Apocalypse being a disaster. The direct comparison with Matsuno's work in XIV just makes YoRHa look so much worse, not that it didn't look bad enough to begin with.

[Jandor]

Obviously I am committing an informal fallacy here, but while that may or may not be true across the board, I don't think Return to Ivalice (and as a result Save the Queen) had an inherent entry barrier for people not familiar with it. I have never touched FF Tactics or XII, and I had no problem following and enjoying the story. It was not a masterpiece (though I think between Return and Save the Queen the overall writing got much better), but it was no better or worse or more or less hard to grasp than previous Alliance Raids and exploration zones.

It has been ages since I played it, but if I recall correctly I was turned off by all the info it just dumps on you in rather long and boring cutscenes. I guess maybe it's far more popular among tactics & XII players because that info is more like a refresher for them, but for me at least it felt like a lot of poorly presented contextless fluff.

I like reading and I like this games lore and story, and still my eyes were glazing over at some points. As I said, I don't hate it or anything, but I doubt I'll ever really get the love some people have for it either.

True mass appeal comes in offering something for everybody. Just as a good restaurant will have an extensive and varied menu, a good MMO will bring multiple things to the table. Yet recently it seems like more and more content is being cut away from the game altogether.

Good restaurants don't really have that extensive and varied a menu though... they'll offer a reasonable selection within their area of expertise but will still generally focus on one type of food. Not that I disagree with the point, I'm just being pedantic about the analogy

[ItMe]

It has been ages since I played it, but if I recall correctly I was turned off by all the info it just dumps on you in rather long and boring cutscenes. I guess maybe it's far more popular among tactics & XII players because that info is more like a refresher for them, but for me at least it felt like a lot of poorly presented contextless fluff.

I've played through Tactics and I didn't care for the rather long and boring cutscenes either, and not just because little of what I liked about Tactics was brought into FF14.
Half the time I was all "I know this, get to the point where I play," only for the playing to be strongarmed into an extended fetchquest to get overpriced wine for an unpleasant NPC.

[Theodric]

It's a matter of personal taste, really.

The Crystal Tower raids did nothing for me since I always found G'raha Tia to be a terrible character. I would have strongly preferred to work alongside Doga and Unei to a greater degree instead of seeing them unceremoniously cast aside to make way for this:



Matsuno's contributions to the story, however, greatly fleshed out Garlemald and allowed us to see much more of its better side than the MSQ's showed us - so I'm struggling to see where the claim of the Ivalice content having no connection to the main story elements is coming from. There's also a fair few links to other important lore elements, such as how Ultima can be tied to Hydaelyn, Mikoto giving us another look at what the Echo is capable of and much more.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I very much enjoyed the Ivalice storyline and raids, so it's surprising to see how unpopular they were. Especially things like "half assed" when there's definitely more work put into it than Eureka or some of the older raids. It feels like it's one of those things that's trendy to hate because it's "not true to the original", but I could be wrong. Either way I enjoyed it.

I'm personally not a fan of unfinished storylines though. Bozja was clearly set up to continue with further story development. We had Hildebrand scrapped too when that was clearly set up to have a ShB arc and the United Beast tribe quest was scrapped. It's not a good sign. Story is meant to be the selling point of the game.

Thank you for this. I’m surprised too tbh, but again, i feel like a lot of the hate is because it’s partially Garlemald theme and a lot of players can’t stand that. With your latter points though yeah. So many stories and plots are being scrapped. Considering EW has been in the works while we’re losing out on all this content and seeing it all rushed and then knowing that the EW plot was supposed to be extended to 7.0... not a good sign at all and i have very low hopes for the next expansion. This expansion has been disappointment after disappointment for me but Bozja was the one thing that kept me motivated to keep playing and then they just do this.

[Vahlnir]

If the story is over, hopefully they can bring some of these characters over to a completely new story. I'd hate to think we've seen the last of Lyon.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Well, not trying to defend Yoshida or the writing team, because I'm not a fan of that kind of shift either, but I think the fundamental difference between him and Matsuno is that Yoshida is ultimately really trying to appeal to the masses as much as he can. Which makes him technically a really good producer, after all that's what his job is for, to ensure maximum return is generated from his product and that they get all the resources they need for that.
One is a very good producer. The other is a good creator. It's like the difference between... Shuntaro Furukawa and Satoru Iwata. Similar positions (CEOs) with the same long-term goal but very different philosophies (one thinks strictly as a financial analyst and the other came from being hands-on with game creation).

The thing is though, appealing to the masses has come at the cost of coherent plot threads at times. So someone like me who gets really invested in stories, it just kind of frustrates me because they’re choosing the ideas of the community who a majority aren’t famous writers who know what they’re doing, instead of their own writers who have their own ideas. I’d rather have a producer that trusts his team and their ideas instead of looking to a community who has no idea how to write or make stories just so they’re “happy.” Besides with this community they get happy over any small bone Yoshi throws at them. It’s why i’m looking to leave though after 6.0 hits and new mmo’s come out. I’m tired of the story coming at the cost of the community.