Dark Knight Megathread

[ThorneDynasty]

I don't know about that, especially with healers it absolutely feels likes the limited number of jobs is at least in part to blame for the homogenization problem. It'd be a lot harder to justify the design philosophy of all healers/tanks having to be equally accessible for every type of player if we had six or even five of each.

[MagiusNecros]

I think Job classes will slow down at some point given XI has 22 combat classes and XIV is now at 20. And the most any FF game has had is 25. Do I think we can go further then 25? Absolutely since the game revolves around the armory system and tying jobs to weapon type.

[Jirah]

I think Job classes will slow down at some point given XI has 22 combat classes and XIV is now at 20. And the most any FF game has had is 25. Do I think we can go further then 25? Absolutely since the game revolves around the armory system and tying jobs to weapon type.

Imma interject here and state the obvious “FF14 ISNT FFXI!”

The games that do have 25 are I assume is FFV where jobs are poorly balanced and only leveled for key skills not the jobs themselves. We do not need more jobs and should focus on what’s available sooner or later as it’s gonna be a balance issue and harder and harder for jobs to get a much needed tune up like (for a random example) DARK KNIGHT

[ThorneDynasty]

Then why is the most saturated role in such a better place than healers and tanks? I just don't see "too many jobs" being the topical problem.

[MagiusNecros]

Imma interject here and state the obvious “FF14 ISNT FFXI!”

The games that do have 25 are I assume is FFV where jobs are poorly balanced and only leveled for key skills not the jobs themselves. We do not need more jobs and should focus on what’s available sooner or later as it’s gonna be a balance issue and harder and harder for jobs to get a much needed tune up like (for a random example) DARK KNIGHT

XIV isn't XI and XI isn't XIV but XIV and XI are both Final Fantasy. *mic drop*

DRK overall has a poor future because they don't have dedicated devs that play DRK and understand it's issues and shortcomings. I really don't think it's going to change. You can make the same argument for Machinist. I think they "like" it where it's at.

Which I find very disappointing. DRK right now only has Aesthetic, good job quest story, AF gear and objective "fun factor" going for it. Class needs looked at. But I think Reaper is the devs answer to that. Which from the DRK perspective is a bad answer.

GNB I think has some restrictive problems but it isn't nearly as terrible as DRK and PLD/WAR are well designed.

My point is at some point they will have to reflect on the other jobs. I see a lot of love and care put into "new" jobs and primarily DPS but it really seems like they often flatout ignore or make small changes to Tanks/Healers.

Unless you are a Warrior. Warriors get everything. Paladin might be moving up to Warrior tier in terms of getting things.

[Jirah]

Then why is the most saturated role in such a better place than healers and tanks? I just don't see "too many jobs" being the topical problem.

As I said literally 2 min ago, the more jobs present the more difficult it is to balance. This is common sense. The most saturated role just so happens to be a DPS role which only has to worry about dealing damage as such compared to tanks and healers they don’t go neck and neck against eachother but at some point the jobs will just be less and less unique and often resort to breaking current jobs legs in to try to rebrand it as a new job

At some point it’ll be not only a blatant balance issue, but a thematic issue where jobs are stretched thin for no reason but for the sake of a new job and harder and harder to keep tabs on older jobs with glaring design issues or overall lackluster like for example out of the blue would be idk…DARK KNIGHT second to MCH to being the most ignored job in EW

[ArthurATDayne]

XIV isn't XI and XI isn't XIV but XIV and XI are both Final Fantasy. *mic drop*

DRK overall has a poor future because they don't have dedicated devs that play DRK and understand it's issues and shortcomings. I really don't think it's going to change. You can make the same argument for Machinist. I think they "like" it where it's at.

Which I find very disappointing. DRK right now only has Aesthetic, good job quest story, AF gear and objective "fun factor" going for it. Class needs looked at. But I think Reaper is the devs answer to that. Which from the DRK perspective is a bad answer.

GNB I think has some restrictive problems but it isn't nearly as terrible as DRK and PLD/WAR are well designed.

My point is at some point they will have to reflect on the other jobs. I see a lot of job and care put into "new" jobs and primarily DPS but it really seems like they often flatout ignore or make small changes to Tanks/Healers.

Unless you are a Warrior. Warriors get everything. Paladin might be moving up to Warrior tier in terms of getting things.

It's no exaggeration too because everything I complained AND nitpicked about WAR and PLD got addressed and it's still unsettling (in a good way) how GREAT the updates are going into EW.

DRK doesn't have any dedicated devs who understand the problems players have with it and it's super obvious i.e. Bloodweapon unchanged, Delirium only getting updated to stacks because WAR's Inner Release got it, Enhanced Unmend + Plunge LMAO, Lame Ass Oblation, Salt & Darkness TAHOO TWO, TWO oh yeah badass Fluff LOL, Shadowbringers... which should've been in SHB anyway. Oh and TBN is still 7s duration while every other Tank short CD is 8s duration at level 82+

The SquareEnix's grand vision of Endwalker DRK:

When Salted Earth is up I'm just gonna mash the F8 Key twice and get that 90s CD Fluff Skill out of the way, take advantage of having it, no extra thought is going into it because I'm not gonna wait around for mobs to stay in the AOE zone for any duration. Fuck this crappy skill, why is it 90s CD? Why isn't it 30s or 60s CD? Piece of shit fluff skill.

When Shadowbringers is up and Darkside Timer is active: Mash the Skill Twice and use up the 2 charges in a hurry. Unless there's a planned burst window buff that we all agreed on in advance, just Mash the Shadowbringers twice. I don't mind this, I rather like it because it's 60s CD and I get 2 charges to dump on mobs for big numbers.

[ThorneDynasty]

As I said literally 2 min ago, the more jobs present the more difficult it is to balance. This is common sense. The most saturated role just so happens to be a DPS role which only has to worry about dealing damage as such compared to tanks and healers they don’t go neck and neck against eachother but at some point the jobs will just be less and less unique and often resort to breaking current jobs legs in to try to rebrand it as a new job

At some point it’ll be not only a blatant balance issue, but a thematic issue where jobs are stretched thin for no reason but for the sake of a new job and harder and harder to keep tabs on older jobs with glaring design issues or overall lackluster like for example out of the blue would be idk…DARK KNIGHT second to MCH to being the most ignored job in EW

Except the current issues with tank and healer role have little to do with with balance, their balance is fine. And their homogenization isn't a result of careful balancing, but a deliberate design direction of reducing complexity. The problem is lack of developer interest in making tanking and healing more engaging and varied - in fact those are seen as bad things because they add complexity and the healer/tank shouldn't make mistakes that make the game less "fun" for other players.

Job variety is exactly the solution to the problem. Could they do this with the current amount of jobs? Yeah probably, but they don't care to. The only thing that will eventually force more creativity within those roles is when adding another mint flavored WAR doesn't cut it anymore.

[MagiusNecros]

Salted Earth is just a bad version of Circle of Scorn. Salt and Darkness is to make it suck less. And since you can't fire SE like a cannon anymore(which was sick as fuck) it literally now is a 1 to 1 copy of Circle of Scorn but garbage.

Shadowbringers is just going to be unloaded on CD probably with GCD, Edge/Flood dbl or triple weave. I'd imagine BS/Q+ EoD/FoD + Shadowbringer.

[ArthurATDayne]

Salted Earth is just a bad version of Circle of Scorn. Salt and Darkness is to make it suck less. And since you can't fire SE like a cannon anymore(which was sick as fuck) it literally now is a 1 to 1 copy of Circle of Scorn but garbage.

Shadowbringers is just going to be unloaded on CD probably with GCD, Edge/Flood dbl or triple weave. I'd imagine BS/Q+ EoD/FoD + Shadowbringer.

A garbage version of Circle of Scorn huh, they should let us rename skills to personalize it, "Circle of Shit" sounds more catchy than Salted Earth/Salt and Darkness

I'm also thinking Shadowbringers + 10s (9ish seconds) Bloodweapon is SquareEnix's idea of a Big Brain Genius way to help DRK players hit 5 Weaponskills/Spells during that shorter than advertise duration to recover the usual pittance amount of Mana/Blood.

Nah they probably forgot Bloodweapon is even used to recover Mana/Blood and still think it provides Haste.