Dark Knight Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

Yes that's what we've been saying. You could also circumvent this by giving DRK a skill that consumes Darkside. You no longer want to overcap on Darkside, nor do you want to dump MP straight away since you will want to weave in your new Darkside skill. Something somewhere will have to give in potency probably, but it would add a layer of depth to an otherwise flat gameplay design. Like I said, "fixing" the stalwart soul and flood progression situation is just putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches. Nothing was "fixed" but at least you did something. What you really need to fix is the design, but I'd still rather have a bandaid than nothing. I'd rather have something that either also used MP so I had to make a choice, or something that consumed Darkside so I'd have to think about when to rebuild my Darkside and when to consume it.

Ahh. It seems I missed the intermediate steps of the conversation, or just caught only the most repeated snippets without their earlier contexts.

Yes, I'd of course be down for making Darkside, MP, etc., actual, integral mechanics. So long as we're not stopping at Stalwart, let alone approaching it just because "Other tanks have X!" then I'm all for this. My concern was that mere bandaid would be used to avoid dealing with a festering wound. Frankly, DRK needs the surgery.

[Ryaduera]

Ahh. It seems I missed the intermediate steps of the conversation, or just caught only the most repeated snippets without their earlier contexts.

Yes, I'd of course be down for making Darkside, MP, etc., actual, integral mechanics. So long as we're not stopping at Stalwart, let alone approaching it just because "Other tanks have X!" then I'm all for this. My concern was that mere bandaid would be used to avoid dealing with a festering wound. Frankly, DRK needs the surgery.

Aye, this being said there are a number of people using the "other tanks have x" which in my opinion is only valid in terms of healing and damage reduction, because we lack there too, as seen in numerous other threads. This thread is long enough many sub-conversations have been had so I can't fault you on that, but I am constantly seeing the Stalwart Soul issue come up VERY often.

[Shurrikhan]

Aye, this being said there are a number of people using the "other tanks have x" which in my opinion is only valid in terms of healing and damage reduction

Mm. About the way I see it:

• Lacking competitiveness in a given raid tier?

  If multiple other tanks are ahead (or any tank has advantage over all others), we should complain.

• Lacking a certain capacity?

  Well, does it affect our competitiveness, either in prog or parse-run frames of reference? If so, we should complain.

• Having merely different portions of capacities, such as less self-healing (but more damage absorbed, to a roughly nearly total, even in practice)?

  Unless it affects our competitiveness, probably not a concern.

• Having a more convoluted way of doing the same thing?

  Unless it affects our competitiveness and/or is no more fun (in any way) for having that unique procedure, probably not a concern.

At minimum, DRK lacks some a competitive invuln, to-be-minutely polished QoL, either broader applicability of its defensive, and/or self-sustain. I could spitball some quick "solutions", e.g.

• Blood Weapon would be fixed if it just lasted 11 or 12 seconds (4.2 to 4.6 GCDs when counting for animation lock costs, given how its MP-granting procedure works) instead of 10 (effectively 3.8 GCDs),
• TBN's applicability could be widened by not giving merely all-or-nothing MP recuperation (instead giving, say, MP cost reduction on next Flood/Edge proportionate to barrier consumed),
• Bloodspiller and Quietus themselves could grant a 5-second %lifesteal window (Quietus at lesser percentage, but refreshing the Bloodspiller effect), and
• Living Dead could simply convert would-be fatal damage into healing-absorption, and deals 1 point more damage at the end of its duration (so you die only if left at 1 or, effectively, less HP, rather than costing your healer 100% of your HP's worth of healing just to un-Doom you.

...but that still wouldn't make DRK outright fun or particularly appealing. (Though I would probably enjoy the aforementioned Bloodspiller windows.) And if it comes down to "simple fixes first" or "identity/gameplay first", I'd rather start at the latter. So when something is presented as the easy/obvious fix, with links drawn to other tanks rather than the benefits for DRK's gameplay itself, I tend to be wary of it.
(Again, no longer worried about that from your idea. I'm glad to see you have the gameplay loops at interest in DRK's own right.)

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Wow, these people saying its fine for DRK to get their second AoE gcd at an obscenely late level must have not played Stormblood RDM. Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contre Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contre Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contre Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contre Sixte E.MoulinetE.MoulinetE.Moulinet Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contra Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contra Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contra Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contra Sixte E.MoulinetE.MoulinetE.Moulinet

/s Very riveting gameplay /s for people that weren't like me that liked that level of mind numbing boredom.

[Ryaduera]

Wow, these people saying its fine for DRK to get their second AoE gcd at an obscenely late level must have not played Stormblood RDM. Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contre Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contre Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contre Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contre Sixte E.MoulinetE.MoulinetE.Moulinet Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contra Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contra Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contra Sixte Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Scatter Contra Sixte E.MoulinetE.MoulinetE.Moulinet

/s Very riveting gameplay /s for people that weren't like me that liked that level of mind numbing boredom.

Actually, what we're saying is it's ok to get part two of the AoE combo if there was something you could do with Darkside or with MP while at those early levels that requires literally any brainpower. You are angrily agreeing with a vast majority.

[Derio]

If DRK is last on the damage output among tanks, there will not really be a reason to bring DRK to a raid or even a extreme trial.

Then you have the leveling problem with no AOE combo and you cant count on flood of shadow at the early levels because of the way blood weapon works due to the AOE and unmend being spells so you cant really use it to the maximum but who cares its dungeon content right? The same content where you want people to feel good which gives them confidence to tank future content.

I think all the tanks early kits need to be looked at.

[ItMe]

If DRK is last on the damage output among tanks, there will not really be a reason to bring DRK to a raid or even a extreme trial.

Depends on how "last" it is.
It is last right now, but by such a slim margin it doesn't matter and in a good comp it will still out DPS the other tanks.

[Ryaduera]

Endwalker was delayed by 2 weeks. Now while I do hope Dark Knight feedback is part of the reason for this, I doubt it actually will be.

[AlucaDragonheart]

Endwalker was delayed by 2 weeks. Now while I do hope Dark Knight feedback is part of the reason for this, I doubt it actually will be.

Probably need more time to squeeze in another Paladin self heal /s

[shao32]

Endwalker was delayed by 2 weeks. Now while I do hope Dark Knight feedback is part of the reason for this, I doubt it actually will be.

It's more about technical reasons about the stability of the servers with the expansión more than anything else, they arent going to delay an expansión for 1 job and even less if that Job is DRK.