Dark Knight Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

Fair enough. It's more of a personal preference to me, anyway. I like the idea of getting offensive options from mitigation, it just doesn't work well in practice because of chasing higher dps with it, which leads to one thing or another..

I like it too, but... as you said. I'd still wouldn't mind giving it a shot; I'm just not optimistic... in anything like the present context.

I think I would prefer a newer animation with the DA proc regardless if we took my route of dps net gain.

I'm all for animation variance. Would like.

This is still also taking into account they actually tone down the ogcd bloat in the burst to begin with. Which as we stated before would be at least partially solved by Shadowbringer being put on one charge on a 60s cooldown with a mana cost.

That's luckily really easy to do. And in addition to slapping an MP cost on Shadowbringer and increasing its potency accordingly, you could also do the same for Carve and Spit / Abyssal Drain. Compared to now, you get the same potency under burst, but slightly lower total and, especially, burst apm.

Or, do that and then also tone all those oGCD potencies down just hair, enough to restore the lost APM via further Edge/Flood casts per 2 minutes [5 casts per 2 minutes with a 40s CnS/AD], increase MP generation per 2 minutes accordingly, and voila -- you'll have the same overall apm, same rDPS, and (nearly) identical aDPS, but less of the apm will fall within those bloated burst periods.

[Zairava]

That's luckily really easy to do. And in addition to slapping an MP cost on Shadowbringer and increasing its potency accordingly, you could also do the same for Carve and Spit / Abyssal Drain. Compared to now, you get the same potency under burst, but slightly lower total and, especially, burst apm.

Or, do that and then also tone all those oGCD potencies down just hair, enough to restore the lost APM via further Edge/Flood casts per 2 minutes [5 casts per 2 minutes with a 40s CnS/AD], increase MP generation per 2 minutes accordingly, and voila -- you'll have the same overall apm, same rDPS, and (nearly) identical aDPS, but less of the apm will fall within those bloated burst periods.

Honestly, increasing the mp generation has been something on my mind since 5.0 launch. As of right now, to me, if we had increased mp generation even in the current expansion, it would warrant having to use mp on edge/flood more often, at least once or twice in downtime between bursts, which would tremendously help make said downtime be less of a snoozefest, especially with said C&S/AD changes.

[ItsUrBoi]

I'd like to rewrite what I wrote before as it might have been lost in the many replies and also with further changes since I noticed some issues in my suggestions:

-> Oblation grants 20% magic damage reduction and 10% against all damage types. 45 seconds CD per charge, 2 charges. Dark Mind removed. ( It is incredibly difficult to weave both Oblation and Dark Mind when needed, and they accomplish the same thing )

-> Abyssal Drain marks target and all nearby enemies with "Another victim", damage dealt to targets marked by this heals the DRK over time. 15 sec duration 90 sec CD. Does not share a recast timer with C&S, and no longer grants MP.

-> Dark Arts makes the next Edge or Flood of Shadow also heal you for potency equal to damage dealt. Otherwise unchanged.

-> Delirium grants 3 stacks of Delirium, allowing the execution without cost of a combo starting with Bloodspiller into another 2 new abilities ( with AoE fall off , similar to PLD's confiteur combo ). Each combo action costs 25 blood. Your burst is the same as it is now, using Delirium and doing x3 Bloodspillers but instead its just 1 Bloodspiller into 2 new actions. You do this combo for free every minute, and can decide to do it when desired if you max out blood, or during the 2 min raid buff window.

-> Living Shadow can stay as it is now, or just "Enhance" the player to do 20% more damage for the next 6 actions, along with a much more visible darkside aura ( 2 Bloodspiller combos, one from Delirium, one from your blood gauge ). The DoT aspect of Living Shadow is kind of lame. It should also cost only 25 blood, as you can go into your 2 min window with 100 blood, 75 for a Bloodspiller combo, and 25 for Living Shadow.

-> Enhanced Unmend can be changed to "Enhanced Abyssal Drain" as perhaps completing an AoE combo with Stalwart Soul would reduce the CD of Abyssal Drain by 3 seconds, and completing a Souleater combo by 5 seconds.

->Scourge can come back as a high potency GCD, 60 second CD GCD, like Goring Blade.

[Shurrikhan]

Gonna follow ItsUrBoi's example and repost my own shortlist, or what all I remember of it, since that's a ton of pages to search through by now:

Simple Sustain + Unbloat Quickfix (+ Living Shadow minor change)

• Shadowbringer, Carve and Spit, and Abyssal Drain now each cost 3000 MP. Their ST and/or AoE damage is increased by the potency of Edge/Flood to compensate.
• CnS/AD gain a second charge, on a 40s recharge time.
• Bloodweapon cooldown reduced to 40s. Remains single-charge.
• Darkside is removed as a gauge/duration-based buff, as it's just a basically non-mechanic anyways after the first Edge cast. MP generation is greatly increased in its place, with potency increases rounding out the rest of the damage otherwise missing.
  (The extent of this increase, which makes up for the bulk of that lost 10% damage amp, is far more than is necessary to simply compensate for the APM lost to ShB and CnS/AD gaining MP costs, causing us to use more oGCDs over our lulls, making them less dull.)
• CnS/AD heal for their damage dealt.
• The MP bar can now offer subtle demarcation of every 3000 MP possessed (standard spenders' cost). The Blood Gauge bar can now offer subtle demarcation of every 40 Blood possessed (likewise, the standard spenders' cost).
• Rather than having a discrete Dark Arts indicator alone, Dark Arts causes next X MP costs on anything but TBN (up to costs equal to 30% of total [3000] MP per TBN) to be nullified, as shown via a black bar portion of your MP bar (with subtle additional demarcation to show how many free casts you have). You can stack MP cost nullification, technically, to up to the full bar. In other words, Dark Arts now stacks up to 3.33 times, and you can just look at the MP gauge itself to see how much you have.
• Edge and Flood heal for a portion of damage dealt, or for their full damage dealt when made free by Dark Arts (one or the other).
• Dark Mind now reduces damage taken by 10%, and magical damage taken by a further 10%.
• Dark Mind upgrades to Oblation, therein having its cooldown reduced (to 40s) and being made castable on allies.
• Living Shadow now instead rapidly copies your weaponskills for 7 strikes, on the same targets, from nearly the same locations, for a portion of damage and full additional effects. (So, rather than a DoT, it can swap about more quickly and now contributes to your resource generation, but also depends upon banking resource in order to maximize its effect. Living Shadow will appear to slip/teleport through you to reach enemies you use weaponskills or gap-close to.)

[Zairava]

Snippy

Can't find anything I really disagree with outside of removing Darkside entirely, it should still exist in some way, shape, or form. Even if we don't think about it.

If I had to choose a method, I would again like to refer to ItsUrBoi's idea for Living Shadow.

Keeping your Living Shadow idea from the shortlist, I would like to add Darkside to it as a bonus effect via a trait that adds it on later, whether it's from the 90-100 range or earlier. It would utilize the Darkside aura from the HW job action trailer and buff the damage output from Fray when it copies your attack by 10/20%. Although, I (and most others) would prefer if it had the aura on Living Shadow baseline. It remains something we really don't think about and is rather taped on, but it still exists some fashion.

[Shurrikhan]

Can't find anything I really disagree with outside of removing Darkside entirely, it should still exist in some way, shape, or form. Even if we don't think about it.

I'm working on another set that treats it far more integrally and as a pace-setter. This is just a quick-fix rough.

But, to me at least, if something isn't thought about at all (beyond this weird superstition handed down that every fight should start with an Edge/Flood, or immediately after Unmend)... it shouldn't exist. It's just an arcane, wholly useless calculations hurdle.

[Guts-BSM]

That would still make a 90 second CD ability your only source of healing which you'd always get as soon as its off CD due to the DPS aspect. Instead Edge or Flood should heal, or even Bloodspiller as you use them more frequently and can choose a bit when to delay or not to delay. As for TBN breaking, perhaps Dark Arts can be a defensive aspect too, such as allowing you to heal urself via those mentioned abilities?

this idea is too good to be true or to actually see squeenix implement it that's why i didn't even think about it

[ItsUrBoi]

The idea that Dark Mind upgrades into Oblation at level 82 is really good!
It could look something like this:
->Dark Mind: Grants 10% magic damage reduction and 10% damage reduction against all types. 60 sec CD, 10 seconds duration.
->Enhanced Dark Mind: Upgrades Dark Mind to Oblation, granting an additional 5% magical damage reduction, reducing the CD to 45 seconds per charge, 2 charges.

Abyssal drain should mark target and all surrounding enemies with Another victim debuff. Dealing damage to these units will heal the DRK who applied the mark. Similar to RPR's mark.
OR
Enhanced Abyssal Drain ( instead of Enhanced Unmend, please that trait is bad ): completing a combo with Stalwart Soul reduces the CD of Abyssal Drain / C&S by 5 seconds.
OR
Abyssal Drain removed. Dark Arts granted by breaking TBN, makes the next Edge or Flood of Shadow heal you for potency equal to damage dealt.

Here's a more detailed idea for Living Shadow which kind of builds off of how it works now.
->Enhanced Living Shadow III : Upgrades the Simulacrum to fight within you, empowering your weaponskills, spells and abilities to deal an additional 350 potency, granting 10% SkS and Spell Speed, and 15% damage reduction for 20 seconds.

At level 80 and 90 Living Shadow would work as it does now.
At level 100, the Simulacrum would augment the DRK, granting them an aura similar to the aura DRK has in the Shadowbringers trailer when the camera rotates around the WoL as DRK. The damage reduction is there since for those 20 seconds it may be harder for the player to double weave mitigations. The skill speed and spell speed are there are as a tribute to old blood weapon. The additional potency is a tribute to old Dark Arts.

This does not change the way the job plays, it would still be a fire and forget button that costs you 50 blood and that you press every 2 minutes, but now:
->You have some job identity ( although some would say its similar to RPR )
->You have more control over it. At the moment you have to make it so that the Simulacrum lands its hits inside raid buffs, but it has a 5-6 second spawn animation.
->You have a cool effect, and the actual red armor indicator next to your darkside icon makes sense, you are actually unleashing your darkside when its the strongest.
->Very rarely, you may want to time this ability for the extra mitigation when you are playing solo content as you have no raid buffs to make use of.

[Zairava]

snip

Agree on all except:

• We shouldn't remove abyssal drain, considering that is one of few abilities left that actually feel satisfying to press animation wise. I would sooner see Abyssal Drain replace Flood of Shadow when tbn pops (equal attack potency to flood obviously, just with the sustain added onto it) and something else for augmented Edge of Shadow. (Scourge or old delirium maybe? I wouldn't exactly like Carve and Spit be relegated to this spot.)
• It would be easier described as a general haste for said Living Shadow upgrade, and I don't think they would add a 15% mitigation to it on top of that. DRK is already good defensively now, to give it more in any fashion with sustain on top of it would "break the balance" in raids if it's dps isn't tuned much lower than it is now. Which leads me to say 350 to every spell/weaponskill WITH 10% haste is bonkers on a tank. Obviously every ability could be tuned much lower than they are now. I would say 100-200 depending on the potency already on the skills.

[ForsakenRoe]

I would say 100-200 depending on the potency already on the skills.[/LIST]

Just have the effect as a Bunshin style effect, that is, have it show up as a seperate number for a flat potency. That way, we don't need to worry about 'oh itll feel bad when your 800+p empowered Bloodspiller doesn't crit', because it'd be a seperate damage number, with a seperate chance to crit.