Dark Knight Megathread

[Nyarlha]

I apologize for the bluntness but you don't like DRK.. you like WAR.. and that is sadly not what this class should be.. you've knows DRK for around 2 months or so and havnt even reached maxed level within the game..

DRK shouldn't be playing the way it currently plays it shouldn't be a carbon copy of the WAR class. It should play completely different from any other tank.. just as all the other tanks should play different then each other.

I played DRK during stormblood and even I barely say I have an opnion on what the job should be like.. because I liked StB and absolutely hate the ShB version

Once again proving that some DRK posters over here are a bunch of gatekeeping drama queens. But please keep crying about a job design that will never come back.

[shao32]

snip

Well, first of all i wanna say your opinion is totally respectable and no one can say anything against that, you like current DRK form and that's totally fine, so leaving that clear let's go by parts.

First of all DRK is a butchered and disjointed kit, is not a thing we can actually debate, it's a fact, you can remove Abyssal drain or plunge, or the whole darkside and won't affect how you use the rest of your skills, at contrary to other jobs wich every or almost every skill contribute on build and dictacte how the job should operate DRK is just a bunch of skills that if you miss one or most of them wont affect at all the others ones ergo disjointed and total lack of any mechanic inside the job outside of TBN.
By your reasoning Living dead is like the rest of the skills, functional and works fine, is a pain to dealt with but do the job like the rest of the invuls, it is worse for the healers? yes but it works and so it's fine so why change it? i hope you understand what im trying to tell you when you talk about other skills like Delirium.

You claim you like the simplicity of tanks and don't need them being more complicated, ok that's a relative fine statement but have you even think about those players who don't wanna fall sleep when playing the role they love? this is not ARR where we have only 2 tanks, we have 4 and not all of them should catter those who like simplicity, there is more ppl around who have diferent tastes and are being forced to play the role reforms without alternatives of the preferences gameplay tastes they use to like to play before what they did on SHB.

The Dev time say they are happy with what they have that's true but what the Dev team and yoship wants are pretty much irrelevant in many aspects specially involving gameplay, they words are not law and they satisfaction of what they do doesn't go over the playerbase satisfaction, they create a game but at the same time they are offering a service and as a customers we have the right to demand changes specially if what they are doing is set aside part of the Tank and Healer mains by oversimplified the whole role when they have enough jobs on them to please everyone to a more aceptable status and they don't bcs they don't give -and sorry for the rude expresion im going to spell- a F*** about our feedback, (remember we have been noticed on the liver letter but have been say practically sorry not sorry we don't care).
There is a lot of examples about this last point, for example when they nerfed 2B bottoms bcs they feel it and the comunity make them to revert that awful change, or when they energically claimed that will be only going to be Female Vieras and Male Roghtgars and now they are going to add the missing genders bcs we didn't agree with they satisfaction on what they did, or a more relatable thing to what we are discussing here when they claimed that SHB Monk was the best thing they did, so proud of they work with the job and yada yada but they have to rework it at the end of SHB to rethink what they are doing with the job on EWK now, the dev team satisfaction matter not specially when they are awfully complacient and heavely negligent in this case on Tanks and Healers with DRK and SCH to be more specific.

In resume your opinion is fine but don't expect someone like me accept current DRK, they take my fav job of the game and throw it to the trash can to gime me this WAR copy of the job, Dev words are not final and you are not the only player here in the game so the entire role shouln't be cattering exclusively to your prefences when we have more than enough jobs for it and having the DPS role doing with their jobs what we are asking to have here, diferent tanks that feel unique and diferent and have diferent skill ceiling to catter those players how like simlicity and those who like something more complex and engaging at the same time, it's not that hard when the DPS role is doing that.

all been say peace, i end being extending myself a bit to much ^^

I dont' think that is a nerf. It's a quality of life change, becasue Delirium will also now have from what I heard 3 charges, not duration. So instead of having 5 skill spam combo on 90s cooldown you will have 2x 3 skill combo on 60s cooldown. Also If I understood LL correctly we will get a Finisher move (that big Purple Slash) to that. I think it's so that Delirium is no longer a "MUST SQEEZE 5 SKILLS IN 10s WINDOW OR I AM BAD!" and isntead will be "ok, I have 3 charges now so 1...2...ok, dodge taht AOE, ok, now 3 and finisher".

Thats how I see it.

Oh i wanted to point on this DRK is not getting a finisher, that purple straight line that feels like an upgraded flood is a GCD that is going to be only usable under living shadow window nothing else, it won't trigger at the end of delirium as they trailer show DRK use it 2 times under living shadow without delirium matching with what Yoship say that living shadow will get a new attack.

[Danelo]

Oh i wanted to point on this DRK is not getting a finisher, that purple straight line that feels like an upgraded flood is a GCD that is going to be only usable under living shadow window nothing else, it won't trigger at the end of delirium as they trailer show DRK use it 2 times under living shadow without delirium matching with what Yoship say that living shadow will get a new attack.

Seems like DRK is getting the life of the dragon treatment during the time your shadow dot is out. The trailer is underwhelming but I’m trying to hold out hope there are traits which allow for more interplay within DRKs kit and abilities/spells they didn’t show.

Delirium is what we were asking for during shb if they didn’t rework so.... eh.

Bw is still the same is crap if it’s the same - if an ability is dependent on how high ping your connection is then it’s poorly designed. If they want to keep it the same then do away with spell speed&skill speed to consolidate it to one. That way if you need to speed up your baseline to get the “intended” result you aren’t forced to meld skill speed or spell speed to hit that 5th gcd. At the least bw needs to get the same treatment as most think delirium is getting - instead of the timed window give the player 5gcd.

LD, as usual, is stupid, and DRKs kit has to make for its existence. I’m crossing my fingers that I’m going to find out LD was reworked come oct 13th.

[Shin96]

It's alright when a new player gives their opinion, it's a fresh breath of air. That said, I think DRK is literally just boring, and you can't fix boring by elevating it's inception even more. We will never return to HW DRK but that's alright, whatever they decide to do at this point I hope they find better ideas for it.

[MagiusNecros]

Making a new DRK would make DRK better. They aren't doing that though.

DRK tidbit from the recent LL does state:

The recast of Delirium will be changed to 60 seconds and roughly three weaponskills can be executed during its duration. Additionally, the range of Plunge will be increased by 5 yalms, and a new single-target defensive buff separate from The Blackest Night will be added.

Which what concerns me is the bolded. Which means outside of GNB having their full Renzokuken combo all Tanks are getting their burst phases nerfed from 5 attacks to 3.

In addition the only real thing DRK's are getting is a Salted Earth attack, a new AoE darkside attack and TBN for a party member separate from TBN itself. And big concerns like Living Dead are promptly ignored.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/443994

[Benn]

The recast of Delirium will be changed to 60 seconds and roughly three weaponskills can be executed during its duration. Additionally, the range of Plunge will be increased by 5 yalms, and a new single-target defensive buff separate from The Blackest Night will be added.

I dont' think that is a nerf. It's a quality of life change, becasue Delirium will also now have from what I heard 3 charges, not duration. So instead of having 5 skill spam combo on 90s cooldown you will have 2x 3 skill combo on 60s cooldown. Also If I understood LL correctly we will get a Finisher move (that big Purple Slash) to that. I think it's so that Delirium is no longer a "MUST SQEEZE 5 SKILLS IN 10s WINDOW OR I AM BAD!" and isntead will be "ok, I have 3 charges now so 1...2...ok, dodge taht AOE, ok, now 3 and finisher".

Thats how I see it.

[ArianeEwah]

I dont' think that is a nerf. It's a quality of life change, becasue Delirium will also now have from what I heard 3 charges, not duration. So instead of having 5 skill spam combo on 90s cooldown you will have 2x 3 skill combo on 60s cooldown. Also If I understood LL correctly we will get a Finisher move (that big Purple Slash) to that. I think it's so that Delirium is no longer a "MUST SQEEZE 5 SKILLS IN 10s WINDOW OR I AM BAD!" and isntead will be "ok, I have 3 charges now so 1...2...ok, dodge taht AOE, ok, now 3 and finisher".

Thats how I see it.

You just described Warrior! WAR gets a finisher move after Inner Release, DRK does not. DRK "finisher" oder follow-up move is probably triggered by Edge, but that's not yet confirmed.

[Axxion]

I dont' think that is a nerf. It's a quality of life change, becasue Delirium will also now have from what I heard 3 charges, not duration. So instead of having 5 skill spam combo on 90s cooldown you will have 2x 3 skill combo on 60s cooldown. Also If I understood LL correctly we will get a Finisher move (that big Purple Slash) to that. I think it's so that Delirium is no longer a "MUST SQEEZE 5 SKILLS IN 10s WINDOW OR I AM BAD!" and isntead will be "ok, I have 3 charges now so 1...2...ok, dodge taht AOE, ok, now 3 and finisher".

Thats how I see it.

Per the translation

Additionally, the recast of Inner Release will be changed to 60 seconds. Because this increases how often it can be used, it will also be changed so that roughly three weaponskills can be executed during its duration.

That will same thing minus the crit and direct hit im afraid. From what it seems to me skill speed may not be needed for war and drk if this is the case( assuming here)

[HyperiusUltima]

At this point, I think they don't know what to do with Living Dead or how to differentiate the Invuln from the other tanks. Since it's been regurgitated and eaten since HW, we might as well leave it out for now and focus on what changes we can make to decouple DRK from being WAR lite. Our current actions are ok, but we need to restructure DRK.

For one, I think they might've designed themselves into a corner with DRK. The way they fixed the gauge in Shadowbringers was namely "Just add some WAR", but this makes it difficult to address since it stems directly from the Gauge. A thought came to mind as I was writing this: How can we make it engaging if we remove the Gauge itself for a moment? Somebody mentioned gauge being used as magic when I was asking about how to decouple DRK from WAR - and this means we'll need actions that add some of the things we missed. But first, decoupling from WAR.

1) Make Bloodspiller and Quietus share a 30s CD. Potencies stay the same and does not require Blood Gauge to execute. This keeps the flow smooth instead of having to feel like the gauge is holding you back the whole time like WAR.

2) Revert Delirium to a Combo Action. Same Potency as Souleater. Restores 1000 MP. Adds 10 to Blood Gauge.

Now we have to think about this. Where does that last 600 Potency go? It goes into this action:

Dark Scourge - Lv 78 Unlock, GCD. Deals 400 potency upfront, DoT for 45s. Potency 40. CD 60s. Does not break combo.

It brings back the action from HW - one of the cooler animations imo. But even though it's nostalgia, this would give DRK a slight edge while also giving it something that can help it stand out a bit more. Now as for the 1000 MP on this Delirium, I feel like adding a choice between Blood and MP to set up for Burst phases(whether you need it quickly or you don't) can help give DRK more choices rather than just be 1-2-3. It may make Delirium more useful since it's restoring two things albeit one gives less Blood, but I think that can be left to figure out at high-end which would be best from a development standpoint.

With that out of the way, we need to consider Blood Gauge spending. We have Living Shadow only for this since we took off the requirement for Bloodspiller and Quietus usage. As far as Abyssal Drain goes, it doesn't feel that great and only restores a small amount of HP, even on big groups due to damage output from packs. Removing the CD from Abyssal Drain and replacing it with 20 Blood Gauge requirement could make AoE feel better as well as help DRK give the feel of self-sustain that it used to on damaging actions.

Then there's the new move in the Job Trailer we saw - the one that makes a huge wave of darkness. I'm not sure how much it'd do, but I'd make it tie to the Blood Gauge with the changes made here. One problem I thought about was whether this would make the job too much of the same thing or something. Extra input on this would help me understand flaws and the like.

Edit: Looking back on it and also reading some of the post at the top of this page, it made me think back and realize that having the second combo makes it similar to WAR - but for different reasons given DRK has two resources it needs to keep up(MP and Blood Gauge), not one.

[MagiusNecros]

Nah I'm pretty sure Delirium is on a 60 second recast period. Only abilities confirmed to have charges so far for tanks is gap closer.