Dark Knight Megathread

[ItsUrBoi]

1. Why 5? That's a LOT of Bloodspiller spam, which would in turn require each hit to grant less effect in balance. You're increasing its attacks granted by two-thirds. Where is that otherwise extra damage coming from?
   
   
2. Does this Skill Speed buff only affect the Blood spender GCDs, or by having this affect all GCDs, are we now forced to blow 5 Bloodspillers immediately as not to waste stacks on combo skills instead of free BS casts?
   
   
3. That underlined bit, too, I have to admit... feels really odd. If anything, why not just tie some minor degree of damage absorption (shield potency per hit or based on damage) to those Delirium attacks, so you aren't so obviously trying to compensate for a concern that will only affect a portion of players? Additionally, if you just stick a mere 3 GCDs, then this 'problem' affects the DRK for no more than 6.4 consecutive seconds, which can be played around even with TBN.

The idea for the blackblood gauge I listed above is that whenever you use either your single target combo or your AoE combo you gain blackblood. Using Blood weapon also grants a bit of blood. This blood enhances certain actions, allowing them to restore HP.

The Delirium change does not affect a small portion of players. I think its important to look at all aspects of a job when wanting for a certain ability to be original. Adding skill speed to a tank job that may have to double weave defenses is tricky and can be very problematic precisely because of this.

I think we are here not to be game designers since it is not our job and we lack the experience and knowledge, instead we can give creative ideas and feedback on the current state of things - listing potencies, intricate functionalities and ability names is kind of counter productive.

The current DRK suffers from several issues:
->Delirium is a Inner release copy, along with the blood gauge.
->Lack of anything to do in between burst windows.
->Dark Mind and Oblation share the same role now, neither being specifically good. Stick to one and make it good. ( Oblation )
->Lack of interactions between your 2 gauges ( Dark Side and Blackblood ) and 1 resource ( MP ). A good example of an interactive job would be warrior. Despite its simplicity, well maximized gauge turns into fell cleaves which reduce the CD of infuriates which grant you more gauge and stronger attacks. That is not the case here.

The real issue I think is not lack of ideas, but lack of an implementation in which this job is still a tank job.

While the above suggestion is my personal creation, I believe the ideal flow would be something like this:
Consume MP on Edge/Flood of Shadow -> Obtain Darkside -> Use actions that consumes Darkside but gives Blackblood -> Consume Blackblood for damage and sustain.

At this point I feel like making the Bloodgauge more of a secondary gauge which just adds to your survivability by adding healing to certain actions, and you don't really have to pay too much attention to it ( similar to PLD's Oath Gauge ), while making the Darkside gauge slightly more complex would solve many of these issues. Especially the healing related ones.

[Shurrikhan]

This blood enhances certain actions, allowing them to restore HP.

Okay, but... passively? Passively with proportionate bonus? Passive with bonus if over a threshold? Else, what are the means to actively consume it?

->Delirium is a Inner release copy, along with the blood gauge.

It's perhaps overly similar, yes, but note that it is also far more flexible. Adding little thematic differences to it like length or speed that would incidentally remove its unique affordances over Inner Release would do at least as much harm as good.

->Lack of anything to do in between burst windows.

Agreed.

A good example of an interactive job would be warrior. Despite its simplicity, well maximized gauge turns into fell cleaves which reduce the CD of infuriates which grant you more gauge and stronger attacks. That is not the case here.

Ehhhh. Now that Warrior can't overcap on Infuriate charge due to that skill having two charges, that hardly seems integral. The only "stronger attacks" it offers is those spenders themselves, so the builder in the spender and the spender is the builder.

You simply happen to get more gauge-value in the process of using gauge-value, effectively just receiving minor refunds. Infuriate is worth 50 gauge per 60s, so 5s of it is worth about 4.2 gauge. Effectively, each FC costs only ~45.8 gauge, and an IR FC costs -4.2 gauge.

There's not really any resource trade happening there, nor any interplay around bottlenecks (in trying to avoid overcapping the gauge generation through skillful use of Onslaught given one's GCDs of uptime, accounting ofc for SkS tiers, between IRs).

[ItsUrBoi]

DRK needs a bit less oGCDs and more GCDs.
Specifically looking at the low impact oGCDs like Living Shadow ( 1 button press every 2 mins, no interactions!, and Salted Earth 2 button presses every 90 seconds ).

Also here's 2 more ideas:
->Abyssal Drain/Carve and Spit costing DarkSide. They no longer share a cooldown, and Abyssal Drain has no CD.
->Abyssal Drain is not bad in design but needs to be larger in radius so it catches more mobs, around 10y would be fine, its currently just 5y. Its healing potency could also be, higher at 300, even with the damage lowered to 100.

[baklava151]

It's perhaps overly similar, yes, but note that it is also far more flexible. Adding little thematic differences to it like length or speed that would incidentally remove its unique affordances over Inner Release would do at least as much harm as good.

How is it more flexible? I know on EW release any GCD would use an IR stack which wasn't true for Delirium, so WAR was locked into using Fell Cleave once they activated IR, but they fixed that in 6.1.

[Shurrikhan]

How is it more flexible? I know on EW release any GCD would use an IR stack which wasn't true for Delirium, so WAR was locked into using Fell Cleave once they activated IR, but they fixed that in 6.1.

Ahh, that's right, nevermind. A WAR somewhere must have complained (albeit rightly, in this case) and quickly got the Delirium treatment there too.
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->Abyssal Drain is not bad in design but needs to be larger in radius so it catches more mobs, around 10y would be fine, its currently just 5y.

While I wouldn't be particularly opposed to a bit more range, AD can already consistently hit everything so long as you're not trying to tank from the center of a ring of mobs (which would screw over all caster and their target-centered circular AoEs).

A 5-yalm range is already the same as every circular AoE (target-centered or caster-centered) in the game. Just make sure you're aiming at the center of the pack. You need only an infinitesimally small portion of the enemies' hit-rings to overlap with that area of effect. It typically hits more than it would appear to.
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Now, personally, I prefer a strong and bankable Abyssal (i.e., two charges on 40s recast, which offers a flex cast per 2min cycle) over a [even if costly] spammable one, simply because the prior is still relatively free and needn't consume too much sustain budget on the basis of its maximum practical performance, but either path sounds like an improvement.

I also agree that we want fewer dead keys, so to speak (like the fire-and-forget 2min Living Shadow or even the twice-cast-per-90s Salted Earth -- though the latter is technically better in that regard than current Carve and Spit... let alone CnS/AD as a pairing, which at 2 buttons for a press per minute is no more efficient than Living Shadow).

[ItsUrBoi]

Now, personally, I prefer a strong and bankable Abyssal (i.e., two charges on 40s recast, which offers a flex cast per 2min cycle) over a [even if costly] spammable one, simply because the prior is still relatively free and needn't consume too much sustain budget on the basis of its maximum practical performance, but either path sounds like an improvement.

I agree. Charges on Abyssal Drain would be very nice. Here's another idea: When completing a combo with Stalwart soul , reduce the CD of Abyssal Drain by 5 seconds.

I'd like to further point out the issues with Dark Mind and Oblation. One works only for magic, one is very weak. Please merge take the damage reduction, or at least a part of it, from Dark Mind and put it into Oblation, and change Dark Mind to something more interesting or that functions in synergy with your defenses.

An example would be to change Dark Mind to a new ability that increases shielding, or converts darkside into healing. You have an abundance of darkside, so using it for something would be amazing!

[Marxam]

I just want to see the lvl 100 skill return to form. Make it Dark Arts, purely for the animation. DA will just work in the same way as Infuriate but with some difference:

Dark Arts:
-60 sec recast (2 charges)
-Gains 3 stacks of DA, 15 sec duration
-DA augments abilities and weapon skills.

examples of DA augments:
-TBN costs no MP (still retains free BS when popped)
-Dark Mind increased to 30% mag
-Soul Eater changed to Power Slash (increased potency, etc)
-Siphon Strike changed to Spinning Slash (increased MP)
-Stalwart Soul restores HP

This is just an example of how DA could have worked in current game design instead of being gutted and turned into flavor text on a tool tip. It copies WAR but still is uniquely different.

However as a whole I would like to see them start to make all aoe ogcds work in the same way as Expacion on PLD does, where the first target hit is full dmg and every other mob gets less potency. ex. Upheaval upgraded to Onslaught, Edge and Flood combined, etc. It would free up button space.

[Casualty]

I just want to see the lvl 100 skill return to form. Make it Dark Arts, purely for the animation. DA will just work in the same way as Infuriate but with some difference:

Dark Arts:
-60 sec recast (2 charges)
-Gains 3 stacks of DA, 15 sec duration
-DA augments abilities and weapon skills.

examples of DA augments:
-TBN costs no MP (still retains free BS when popped)
-Dark Mind increased to 30% mag
-Soul Eater changed to Power Slash (increased potency, etc)
-Siphon Strike changed to Spinning Slash (increased MP)
-Stalwart Soul restores HP

This is just an example of how DA could have worked in current game design instead of being gutted and turned into flavor text on a tool tip. It copies WAR but still is uniquely different.

However as a whole I would like to see them start to make all aoe ogcds work in the same way as Expacion on PLD does, where the first target hit is full dmg and every other mob gets less potency. ex. Upheaval upgraded to Onslaught, Edge and Flood combined, etc. It would free up button space.

The way that is described, depending on potency/MP gained, we would be using that in the opener to buff the last Syphon Strike/Soul Eater, and if lucky a TBN for a free Edge. Always. And then using the other charge to bank TBN and to lead into the next cycle with a Soul Eater. Really all that accomplishes is making the burst windows more hectic with trying to make sure that you get the most of your charges on 3 separate 15 second buffs. At least with BW and Delirium you can use the charges on the same attacks. This game's combat is too formulaic to mix offensive and defensive resources. Offense will always, always win that choice, as damage coming in is predictable.

If we had to go back to having Dark Arts as an actual oGCD I would rather it only enhance defensives, whether it be shielding ourselves or others. Do you want it to buff against a tank buster or help with group mitigation? Depends on what your team already used. That might actually be a choice.

[RyuDragnier]

If we had to go back to having Dark Arts as an actual oGCD I would rather it only enhance defensives, whether it be shielding ourselves or others. Do you want it to buff against a tank buster or help with group mitigation? Depends on what your team already used. That might actually be a choice.

It would be the best way to use DA at this point, as everybody will only ever choose damage for its use. Take that away (or make the change damage neutral), and you've knocked that problem out of the way.

[Lyth]

If you want to see 'Dark Arts' in its original form, you would likely need something similar to MCH's PvP Analysis ability.

Ryu is right in that it would need to be free from resource costs and utility/defensive exclusive, or else the highest damage choice always wins out. The downside is that it reduces your weave space, although it could equally be implemented as a proc buff.