Dark Knight Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

If the Blood Gauge is to be axed because it (and likely any other centigrade gauge) is "just Beast Gauge", what of Storm's Huton Darkside?

[baklava151]

What of them? The Darkside buff is different enough and can expanded on so that DRK's gameplay can be more of juggling act between MP and Darkside. That's why I'd advocate removing Blood and Blood abilities (or maybe rework Bloodspiller/Quietus, would still delete Living Shadow though) to make room for other abilities that play into that theme, they just get in the way if they stick around otherwise.

[shao32]

Darkside buff is a pretty unique on his kind due being managed by oGCD, the problem is there is no actual management and make the whole mechanic completely irrelevant gameplay wise at contrary to his counterparts for some reason and that's awful, it would be great if they stop making Darkside being inexistent and expand the mechanic at contrary that the obviously lazily copied blood mechanic.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

What of them? The Darkside buff is different enough and can expanded on so that DRK's gameplay can be more of juggling act between MP and Darkside. That's why I'd advocate removing Blood and Blood abilities (or maybe rework Bloodspiller/Quietus, would still delete Living Shadow though) to make room for other abilities that play into that theme, they just get in the way if they stick around otherwise.

DRK already had resource juggling in SB between MP & blood gauge. The interaction was axed because the devs decided it was too complex for the average player and the devs wanted to streamline it. What makes you think they'd bring it back in a new form?

It's why I truly don't understand why people keep advocating for darkside usage. It's not going to add any complexity in the slightest that you think it will. The devs have already gone on record time and again they want job kits to have a very high skill floor, so tying things to darkside will simply make it so the devs tune the usage to be as brain dead easy as current Blood Gauge & Darkside are. Not to mention they already did this whole 'use a resource constantly ticking down to use moves while keeping timer active' balancing act in HW DRG. Guess what? That got extremely axed because it was cited as one of the more complex job interactions by Yoshi-P in a liveletter.

Darkside, MP, Blood, the resource doesn't matter. It'll all be tuned the exact same way - brain dead easy to manage in casual play, with the only true complexity being how to optimize for raid windows. If you want to give any sort of complexity to a tank, moving towards combo oriented gameplay like PLD is your only hope. As WAR, GNB & DRK are all brain dead easy due to the way devs tune resource generation on tanks to make their kits simplified.

[Shurrikhan]

What of them? The Darkside buff is different enough and can expanded on so that DRK's gameplay can be more of juggling act between MP and Darkside. That's why I'd advocate removing Blood and Blood abilities (or maybe rework Bloodspiller/Quietus, would still delete Living Shadow though) to make room for other abilities that play into that theme, they just get in the way if they stick around otherwise.

Its "difference" is only that, though: that it has an oGCD generator (itself afforded largely through GCDs). All else is identical to WAR's Surging Tempest and NIN's Huton.

Moreover, keep in mind that resources and gauges in XIV are first and foremost constraints that, if starting from 0, force backloading or, if starting from max, encourage banking. No more. Given those trends, there's little to no reason to point at Surging/Huton/Darkside and think, "Yes, this, if adjusted in nearly any way, will give us enjoyable complexity."

If you want a fun Darkside, you'll probably have to start with precisely the gameplay loops you want from it. Else it'd probably just end up being a more invasive maintenance loop at best.

[baklava151]

DRK already had resource juggling in SB between MP & blood gauge. The interaction was axed because the devs decided it was too complex for the average player and the devs wanted to streamline it. What makes you think they'd bring it back in a new form?

It's why I truly don't understand why people keep advocating for darkside usage. It's not going to add any complexity in the slightest that you think it will. The devs have already gone on record time and again they want job kits to have a very high skill floor, so tying things to darkside will simply make it so the devs tune the usage to be as brain dead easy as current Blood Gauge & Darkside are. Not to mention they already did this whole 'use a resource constantly ticking down to use moves while keeping timer active' balancing act in HW DRG. Guess what? That got extremely axed because it was cited as one of the more complex job interactions by Yoshi-P in a liveletter.

Darkside, MP, Blood, the resource doesn't matter. It'll all be tuned the exact same way - brain dead easy to manage in casual play, with the only true complexity being how to optimize for raid windows. If you want to give any sort of complexity to a tank, moving towards combo oriented gameplay like PLD is your only hope. As WAR, GNB & DRK are all brain dead easy due to the way devs tune resource generation on tanks to make their kits simplified.

I mean the way you're saying it, it sounds like something the devs decided on their own rather than basing it off player feedback. I don't know, I wasn't around for HW/SB but were a lot of people complaining about DRK being too complex? I know a lot of people have said it was fun but janky. Either way, the core issue is still that DRK is unengaging outside of burst windows, which is why I and others are bringing up Darkside because we want something to do other than 1-2-3. And I'm open to anything if they don't want to go that route specifically.

[Kabooa]

Not to mention they already did this whole 'use a resource constantly ticking down to use moves while keeping timer active' balancing act in HW DRG. Guess what? That got extremely axed because it was cited as one of the more complex job interactions by Yoshi-P in a liveletter.

A sorrow so deep only emptiness remains...

[shao32]

I mean the way you're saying it, it sounds like something the devs decided on their own rather than basing it off player feedback. I don't know, I wasn't around for HW/SB but were a lot of people complaining about DRK being too complex? I know a lot of people have said it was fun but janky. Either way, the core issue is still that DRK is unengaging outside of burst windows, which is why I and others are bringing up Darkside because we want something to do other than 1-2-3. And I'm open to anything if they don't want to go that route specifically.

Not much but there was some ppl that complained that they have to work more for doing less that the other tanks back in SB, most ppl wanted to reduce the amount of DA not being complety axed, ppl asked for Delirium being more important (use to be a blood consume buff that give MP and added extra seconds to blood weapon buff, 40s blood weapon 80s recast Delirium) not turn it in to Inner release made in china version, and a large ect.
So what we have now is mostly SE own goings, they just adressed some of DRK problems back then in SB just to ignore every single feedback and make it what it is right now, in other words "oh they complain about DA spam? ok lets delete the whole thing. oh they want Delirium being more important? mmm thats think to much lets just copy inner release, oh they don't like it? to bad lets just don't add anything significative this expansion and keep it the same", some ppl defend the SHB rework beliving it was a solid base for the job to expand just to get complety disappointed the job it's going to be exaclty the same with no improvements at all.

[Oizen]

I just like how the Dark Side meter has 3 indicators on it, (Dark Side Duration, Living Shadow Duration and Dark Arts stack) and none of them are useful in the slightest. If I could hide that helmet from my UI, I would.

[Shurrikhan]

Not to mention they already did this whole 'use a resource constantly ticking down to use moves while keeping timer active' balancing act in HW DRG. Guess what? That got extremely axed because it was cited as one of the more complex job interactions by Yoshi-P in a liveletter.

A sorrow so deep only emptiness remains...

That... probably was the last interesting timer element we got. (Old Tri-Disaster and its refreshes would be a clunkier and far less modular or integral second place.)

Sadly, like Daeriion, I don't expect to see something like that again.