Dark Knight Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

That change would make it impossible to use Living Shadow on-time for buffs.

Why would it? You only need 30 Blood from Blood Weapon itself to reach 50 Blood within 3 GCDs. It's not as if Souleater stopped existing. We've always opened with Souleater before Bloodspiller spam, in order to push LS up from 5th GCD to 3rd.

All things not mentioned being equal to the current version, this would still net 40 Blood, at 10 per GCD (4 GCDs total). The excess 600 MP would simply either be what Bloodspiller would otherwise have given -- with a slight but irrelevant nerf to Quietus MP gains -- or compensation for the 10 Blood lost.

[ItsUrBoi]

Why would it? You only need 30 Blood from Blood Weapon itself to reach 50 Blood within 3 GCDs. It's not as if Souleater stopped existing. We've always opened with Souleater before Bloodspiller spam, in order to push LS up from 5th GCD to 3rd.

Because what he meant was for Delirium to replace Blood Weapon but only transfer the MP generation ( 900 MP / hit ). No blood generation.

[Shurrikhan]

Because what he meant was for Delirium to replace Blood Weapon but only transfer the MP generation ( 900 MP / hit ). No blood generation.

He said to increase its MP gains per strike (from 600 to 900), yes, but I'm not seeing where he asked to remove its Blood generation?

[ItsUrBoi]

He said to increase its MP gains per strike (from 600 to 900), yes, but I'm not seeing where he asked to remove its Blood generation?

Me neither but since he didn't mention it, the person above possibly thought it wouldn't be a thing.

[Luin]

He said to increase its MP gains per strike (from 600 to 900), yes, but I'm not seeing where he asked to remove its Blood generation?

Currently we Living Shadow on 3rd GCD

Blood Weapon>Hard Slash>Syphon Strike>Souleater-Living Shadow

According to their suggestion, Delirium would only generate 40 blood. We'd be 10 blood behind, even 4gcds into the encounter. Even if it were 5 stacks and generated a total of 50 blood, our LS would still be delayed, and this would mean we're bursting outside of Delirium.

If we Delirium>Bloodspiller>BS>BS>BS we're only at 40 blood.

Alternative: HS>SS>SE>Delirium-BS>BS>BS-Living Shadow. Either case, LS is late, and delaying LS at any point desyncs it from raidbuffs for the entire encounter.

This is if BS/Quietus generated +mp+blood.

If we allow any GCD to generate +mp+blood, then it has to function like Inner Release, and be consumed when we use any GCD. This would also prevent us from using LS on-time, unless we throw away the free Bloodspillers.

If we allow any GCD to generate +mp+blood and it doesn't function like Inner Release, then we have the same problem of needing to fit X number of GCDs in a duration, except we've introduced new clunk of some of those GCDs needing to be Bloodspillers. It wouldn't solve anything.

edit - Making the effects that grant free Bloodspillers and +mp+blood into two separate buffs would solve these 'problems', but this is not what was suggested, and would prevent Delirium from being used at high blood. Not sure how it would interact with MP in the burst, but what was the suggestion supposed to address?

If it's supposed to solve button bloat, why not cut Abyssal Drain or Salted Earth first?

(Still, that suggestion was originally just a compromise, and I agree with the poster that the optimal change is 5 stacks Blood Weapon)

[Shurrikhan]

Unlike Blood Weapon, Delirium doesn't have lower effective than stated duration. You need only a ~2.48 GCD to get off 7 GCDs under its effect, enough to both open with Delirium, push out a 3rd-GCD LS, and still spend all 4 BSs. And that's assuming we wouldn't simply increase its duration slightly.

[Archwizard]

That change would make it impossible to use Living Shadow on-time for buffs.

They could just add Living Shadow to Delirium's effects, or remove its Blood cost since it doesn't make sense to have on top of a CD.

But you're right, I didn't account for that aspect when writing my list. So I guess the easy answer really is just put Blood Weapon on a 5 stack system.
It would feel awkward, imo, to have two different Stack-based abilities on the same CD (with different stack counts, even), but who knows how the devs feel about it.

[Shurrikhan]

Personally, so long as Blood Weapon and Delirium are both just generators (a free Edge and Bloodspiller each generated over time and 3 Bloodspiller generated immediately), I'd rather they be consolidated than, say, Salted Earth removed (especially if again allowed to be freely positioned) or Abyssal Drain consolidated into Carve and Split.

I can see how that's ultimately just a matter of personal preference, though.

(Else, we'd have to somehow have to come to a concensus on how to weigh the value of each action first before we can even discuss how each skill thereby ought to score and then, finally, which should stay and which should go... which is probably out of scope for us here, at least for now, over so trivial a part of DRK's wider problems....)

[ItsUrBoi]

I'd like to point out a few issues that no one or I have rarely seen people point out. The DRK rotation forces you to double weave for optimal damage. I don't have a problem with double weaving since I find it fun and skillful ( ping issues aside ). However:
-> In order to mitigate you have to press 3 buttons ( TBN + Oblation + Dark Mind / Shadow Wall ), I would certainly wish for 2 buttons. TBN should have Oblation within itself. The reasoning here is that if you have your burst coming up and you have to mitigate, you have to sacrifice damage to do so ( raid buffs ). GNB solves this problem well because it never forces you to double weave for 6 GCDs straight while bursting.
-> Dark Mind shouldn't be only magic damage reduction please. It can be a lot of things. 10% of each damage reduction and a heal over time, or a heal which converts some DarkSide into HP.
-> Blood weapon shouldn't be tied to duration. It should be stacks because stacks allow you more flexible usage ( ex: Opener, pop it a few seconds before combat starts )
-> TBN shouldn't be tied to damage and MP. Dark Arts could give a free use of something else ( like Dark Mind , a heal ). There's many moments when when you have to burst in your rotation and you have ~4500 mp wishing to use an Edge/Flood within raid buffs, but there's a tank buster coming.

I love how the problems pointed out here, are ignored in favor of "the job should be deleted" or "lets merge 2 cds that didn't bother most people".
On one side people want the job to be better, thats why we are posting here, but come on, instead of arguing maybe let's be a bit constructive.

[ItsUrBoi]

Another 2 suggestions I have regarding TBN, Dark Mind and Dark Arts:
- If TBN breaks, your next Edge / Flood of Shadow heals you for potency equal to damage dealt by said ability. No cost, 15 sec CD. It should also have Oblation's 10% damage reduction into it. Solves sustain in dungeons and gives DRK some sustain.
- Dark Mind converts all damage mitigated into healing for 10 seconds. So if you use Rampart and a mob hits you for 100 damage, you heal for 20 damage. Works on shields and damage reductions. 60 seconds CD. Works well with DRK being the mitigation tank.