Dark Knight Megathread

[shao32]

Technically they can do a full rework mid expansion, they did it with ninja and others, the thing is make them clear that make us wait another 2-3 years with the current gameplay build is unaceptable.
I saw Kei sato and his team move and do much more for less complains that DRK have so the question is how much they are willing to ignored. If anything is the first time i saw the JP forum sad joking to wait to 7.0 and comment they several sugestions has been totally unatended (specially Delirium, lack of combos-new GCD, shadow skin not coming back and the meme skills we are getting) so i bet for some reason DRK doesn't deserve they attention at all and they don't want/care since it wont affect the amount of subs specially when they just designed RPR with DRK feedback and even some users skills designs.

[Kalaam]

That kind of mentality is what led to the divide between WoW devs and players.
I am not saying that devs should bend to the player's every whims of course, it'd be a terrible idea. However, they shouldn't be afraid of bringing back abilities, concepts etc from previous iterations.
If they were to do a big rework mid-expac, they could reuse old animations for new gcds and so on. Would it feel cheap to reuse old animations ? Maybe. But since most of those are beloved and missed by a lot of players, it could be both a cost effective and popular choice.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm wondering how high the chances of getting a "rework" are in EW. I'm expecting low though because its not a dps

Tbf, the critical factor is the direction of the change, more so than the role. SE was happy to shallow out Warrior mid-Stormblood, not far off in the patch cycle from Ninja's gutting in Shadowbringers. We just don't get depth added mid-expansion beyond giving back necessary abilities briefly held hostage (Energy Drain, Hagakure, et cetera).

[Mekhana]

SE had a historical bias for WAR up until SB tho. People complained in JP tank forums about anything WAR-related and they patched it the next week.

[ArthurATDayne]

Dec 3 & 7th coming up super soon. I'm not optimistic that significant changes if any will be made by then but who knows...

Wish List:

1. Blood Weapon 60s CD: 5 Stacks 30s Duration This isn't up for debate.

2. Delirium 60s CD: 3 Stacks 30s Duration Increase Mana Restore to compensate for only 3 instead of 5 Bloodspillers/Quietus Edited: Already Met

3. Enhanced Unmend + Plunge is Trash Fluff, Give Dark Knights More Reliable ON-Demand HP Restore option besides Abyssal Drain in current state. Abyssal Drain is useless on 1 Target and 1-2-3 SoulEater Combo isn't enough, especially for later 71-80+ Content

4. Oblation is lackluster & should be available way sooner than level 82, like somewhere between 30-69 at the least. Personal or Targeted 1 Party Member 10% Damage Reduction is pretty wimpy, why not just combine it with Dark Mind and give a 15% Damage Reduction for both Physical & Magical, That way we got something useful for all situations starting at 45. If it's stays at 10% Damage Reduction, that's OK but please have it accessible 30-69, sooner the better.

5. Salted Earth... Sigh, 90s CD What the Fuck. It's a crappy version of Circle of Scorn, so it's more like Circle of Shit. If we're going to eventually use this more often instead of ignoring it on hotbar because that Salt & Darkness AOE Blowup effect is too nice to ignore at 90, why not lower the CD to 60s or under so it won't be so forgettable?

6: The Blackest Night: 8s Duration Buff At Least. Don't Nerf CD or any nerfs, it could cause severe imbalance, unhappiness and cause another Calamity.

7: Living Shadow needs to Move Its Ass and Attack Immediately, Stop Posing and Screwing Around. Maybe Synergy with our Attacks to give us some illusion of control over how fast the lazy prick attacks.

[Shurrikhan]

Living Shadow needs to Move Its Ass and Attack Immediately, Stop Posing and Screwing Around.

I get the aesthetic value of the shadow moving earlier, but so long as you're only going to be popping it on longer-lived enemies anyways (and are therefore unlikely to have its total duration go to waste over it not beginning that duration instantly), would this actually make a difference. (Heck, if it did result in a consistent potency increase... it'd just be siphoned from elsewhere unless DRK were undertuned.)

Granted, I'm all for giving Living Shadow the Dancing Rune Weapon treatment (double effects, and +50% damage from each GCD skill over the duration) a la a Bunshin skill actually done right, but... simply skipping the Unmend cast at the start in favor of instantly plunging in (when each is, effectively, on the same 3-second DoT tick / "Shadow-GCD") just makes no difference to actual throughput.

Enhanced Unmend + Plunge is Trash Fluff, Give Dark Knights More Reliable ON-Demand HP Restore option besides Abyssal Drain in current state.

*Looks at Ninja's resets of its longer-CD movement skill on ranged attacks (Raiton, Katon) that aren't a damage-loss even in melee range.*
*Looks back at DRK, for which the oGCD value of Plunge still wouldn't make up for the effective damage loss of using Unmend when the melee combo is available.*
*Double-take.*

Really, though; just reduce Plunge's potency if need be slightly and have Enhance Unmend unlock a free use of Plunge within the next 5 seconds. Voila. It'd actually be kind of fun instead of merely a jeer.

Blood Weapon 60s CD: 5 Stacks 30s Duration This isn't up for debate.

Debatable. No, really, when the exact same functional value can be had by just adding a second or two's duration, why are we so fixated on turning anything and everything into an ammo system?

Delirium 60s CD: 3 Stacks 30s Duration Increase Mana Restore to compensate for only 3 instead of 5 Bloodspillers/Quietus.

Or just give MP restoration equal to average mana-gen-per-gcd of our combo on ALL blood spending GCDs, rather than only those under Delirium. We don't really need even more to bank for/around raid CDs.

[ArthurATDayne]

Debatable. No, really, when the exact same functional value can be had by just adding a second or two's duration, why are we so fixated on turning anything and everything into an ammo system?

It's not because "ammo" is cool or going ammo stack system for the hell of it, it's because it just works well in nearly every situation to address issues like Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Using Spell Speed Skills instead of Skill Speed Skills, Moving out of Melee Range, A Real Life Itch You Gotta Scratch, etc that would prevent the player from getting the best utility out of their Blood Weapon skill.

Merely adding 1 or 2 seconds could work but it's still a tight enough window that Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Spell Speed Skill vs Skill Speed Skill will screw you over and it's such a goddamn annoying rush to mash those buttons in about 10s or under.

30s Duration is really pleasant, gives the player breathing room, and 5 Stacks ensures the player only ever gets utilize 5 stacks worth of mana/blood restore and can't be exploited further. If someone wants to rush and blow all 5 Stacks in a hurry that's fine, take a bit longer to use your 5 stacks dodging stuff/out of melee range etc no problem.

[Shurrikhan]

It's not because "ammo" is cool or going ammo stack system for the hell of it, it's because it just works well in nearly every situation to address issues like Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Using Spell Speed Skills instead of Skill Speed Skills, Moving out of Melee Range, A Real Life Itch You Gotta Scratch, etc that would prevent the player from getting the best utility out of their Blood Weapon skill.

Yes. And? Why should DRK, of all jobs, be immune to lost CD value from forced downtime? Why should DRK, of all jobs, be free to scratch their bum with both hands mid-combat? There's no "getting the best utility out of Blood Weapon" by way of player agency at that point. It'd be uniquely player-irrelevant.

Consider also, if Blood Weapon is deserving of a 30s duration on a damned 5-strike CD, why don't we do use ammo instead for Raging Strikes, Dreadwyrm Stance, Ley Lines, Blood for Blood, Fight or Flight, Requiescat, Riddle of Fire, etc., etc.?

Just give it an extra second's duration to compensate for the delay caused by it checking for Blood Weapon's presence after each hit (therefore some 0.6s later) and it's done. It'd then work as intended.

Merely adding 1 or 2 seconds could work but it's still a tight enough window that Lag, Fat Fingering Keyboard, Spell Speed Skill vs Skill Speed Skill will screw you over and it's such a goddamn annoying rush to mash those buttons in about 10s or under.

...This is true of every durationed CD in the game. That's their point: to optimize the time in which they are active. That "rush" is the point. Don't fat-finger. Don't attempt to multi-weave more than you can without clipping if it'd cost you a GCD under the effect. Don't play badly, especially when your core CDs are rolling.

And I think we can all agree already that either the Skill/Spell Speed split needs to be removed or all hybrid jobs need a trait that duplicates the effect of Skill Speed onto their spells.

[Wayback]

2. Delirium 60s CD: 3 Stacks 30s Duration Increase Mana Restore to compensate for only 3 instead of 5 Bloodspillers/Quietus

Just a note, we're not losing any Mana restoration with the new Delirium. The 200 MP per hit is there to compensate for the loss in MP we'd recieve from our usual 1-2-3 combo, which averages out at 200 MP per GCD.

[ArthurATDayne]

Just a note, we're not losing any Mana restoration with the new Delirium. The 200 MP per hit is there to compensate for the loss in MP we'd recieve from our usual 1-2-3 combo, which averages out at 200 MP per GCD.

Great 1 item checked off from my list.