Dark Knight Megathread

[baklava151]

The mana cost will never be justified when it's taking a resource that damage moves also take, because that means it will always be a DPS loss to use (DPS neutral at best).

Like I said, the MP cost is what allows it to be on a shorter CD and give you more uptime on it which is not something to sneeze at, so there's definitely a good reason to make TBN cost 3000 MP. Anytime Square ties utility to some kind of resource, they always give it a shorter CD like SAM's Gyoten, PLD's Shelltron, formerly WAR's Onslaught. Hence why I would be opposed to removing the MP cost entirely so as not to lose that aspect. Now could they just have TBN automatically grant a DA proc as soon as you use it or when the shield expires to make it fully damage neutral? Sure I guess, I personally would say it's really not that big a deal and to time TBN better, but that option is there.

[RyuDragnier]

Like I said, the MP cost is what allows it to be on a shorter CD and give you more uptime on it which is not something to sneeze at, so there's definitely a good reason to make TBN cost 3000 MP. Anytime Square ties utility to some kind of resource, they always give it a shorter CD like SAM's Gyoten, PLD's Shelltron, formerly WAR's Onslaught. Hence why I would be opposed to removing the MP cost entirely so as not to lose that aspect. Now could they just have TBN automatically grant a DA proc as soon as you use it or when the shield expires to make it fully damage neutral? Sure I guess, I personally would say it's really not that big a deal and to time TBN better, but that option is there.

I'd prefer for TBN to have no MP cost and be on a 25s cooldown. Make it so if the shield doesn't break, the remaining HP of the shield is thrown back into your health pool, and if it does break, you get a regen. Then we could throw something that could be a potency boost skill (think something like Kaiten) to replace it in the MP cost pool.

[Zairava]

I'd prefer for TBN to have no MP cost and be on a 25s cooldown. Make it so if the shield doesn't break, the remaining HP of the shield is thrown back into your health pool, and if it does break, you get a regen. Then we could throw something that could be a potency boost skill (think something like Kaiten) to replace it in the MP cost pool.

[RyuDragnier]

Yes, DA would be the one. And since that would make it 3K cost that doesn't give Darkside, we're not able to spam it all the time.

[Zairava]

Yes, DA would be the one. And since that would make it 3K cost that doesn't give Darkside, we're not able to spam it all the time.

To actually be constructive about this, to bring up a prior point..

Bring Shadowskin back as a low level TBN, make it upgrade into TBN, and make TBN evolve into Oblation while keeping the shield portion of it.

Upon the shield fading or breaking, then provide a regen.

Bring back Dark Arts and increase the cooldown on Oblation (referencing the Oblation in my above modification, of course).

How Dark Arts would be used should explain itself by now, but it would enhance various abilities (GCD's preferably) or grant access to such. Ideally would be used once or twice a minute due to the mana cost.

If they were to keep edge and flood of shadow, there's various methods to remedy "but would it be worth it".

Dark Arts could:

• Grant access to a DoT or something like Death's Design
• Grant access to an upgraded GCD combo entirely (or just the combo ender) for both single target and aoe
• Let certain abilities have various boons such as standing in Salted Earth granting a defense boost to the DRK while standing inside of it.
• Amplifying effects that are already there. Such as buffing the cure potency on Abyssal Drain by, say, 400.
• Resetting the cooldown of Abyssal Drain

these are options, not all of them provided at the same time. SE would be free to choose what they like best out of these. Of course, they wouldn't be limited to just one out of the list, or this list in itself, for that matter.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

[*]Let certain abilities have various boons such as standing in Salted Earth granting a defense boost to the DRK while standing inside of it..

I think it be really cool if Salted gave the mitigation and healing it does from PVP.

I'll truly never understand people's fascination on wanting to put defensive/healing effects on skills that they'd be borderline useless on. You're never going to hold Salted Earth due to it being a dps loss, meaning any defensive/healing bonuses to it would be effective irrelevant unless the bosses's rotation just happens to line up that way when you use it...on top of being so infrequent due to it being 90s. Would do nothing to help DRK's sustain in any meaningful way whatsoever. Inner Beast, Shield Swipe and old Dark Arts showed that anytime you mix any form of defensive & offensive utility on the same button / resource, the defensive side is minimized outside of the most dire emergencies because dps is the only thing that matters in this game. Stick the healing on Oblation / AoE combo / MP spenders / Blood spenders that appear frequently in your rotation where you have some degree of control over when its used and thus, actually useful for real sustain.

If Dark Arts ever came back as its own separate button with even remotely the same sort of effect as it used to have, it would either have to be:
-Purely a defensive button / modifies purely defensive abilities (while not using any form of MP to prevent competition with Edge/Flood and prevent the new DA from instantly being dead on arrival)
-Purely offensive / modifies purely offensive abilities (which draws into question of it being redundant when Edge of Shadow is literally old Dark Arts taken to its logical conclusion of the dps > all game design that every good DRK was doing in SB / late HW)

Given job design in this game, the only way I ever see it coming back as something akin to life surge, where its just a multi charge, no resource cost button that auto crits a skill of your choice.

[Oizen]

I'll truly never understand people's fascination on wanting to put defensive/healing effects on skills that they'd be borderline useless on. You're never going to hold Salted Earth due to it being a dps loss, meaning any defensive/healing bonuses to it would be effective irrelevant unless the bosses's rotation just happens to line up that way when you use it...on top of being so infrequent due to it being 90s. Would do nothing to help DRK's sustain in any meaningful way whatsoever. Inner Beast, Shield Swipe and old Dark Arts showed that anytime you mix any form of defensive & offensive utility on the same button / resource, the defensive side is minimized outside of the most dire emergencies because dps is the only thing that matters in this game. Stick the healing on Oblation / AoE combo / MP spenders / Blood spenders that appear frequently in your rotation where you have some degree of control over when its used and thus, actually useful for real sustain.

If Dark Arts ever came back as its own separate button with even remotely the same sort of effect as it used to have, it would either have to be:
-Purely a defensive button / modifies purely defensive abilities (while not using any form of MP to prevent competition with Edge/Flood and prevent the new DA from instantly being dead on arrival)
-Purely offensive / modifies purely offensive abilities (which draws into question of it being redundant when Edge of Shadow is literally old Dark Arts taken to its logical conclusion of the dps > all game design that every good DRK was doing in SB / late HW)

Given job design in this game, the only way I ever see it coming back as something akin to life surge, where its just a multi charge, no resource cost button that auto crits a skill of your choice.

Dont know what you're talkin about, Salted would be amazing in dungeons and solve DRK's issues there if it had a heal.

But then I also don't mind if every single skill isn't specifically geared for min maxing week 1 savage clears specifically.