Dark Knight Megathread

[Marxam]

Double weaving is job design problem and not a cd design problem. You have a job that needs to feel "busy" but only has one rotation so you give it tons of ogcds to fluff it up. It's one of the reasons why DRK is terribly designed. Imo no tank should be double weaving because you want to encourage using defensive cds in between gcds. A lot of DRK's ogcds are just there for damage and nothing more.

My suggestion for Delirium heals is more for dungeon pulls than savage content. WAR's BW is strong in dungeons but in savage the heals at best can negate 2-3 autos if it crits (which is roughly the same as TBN). A bloodspiller heals aren't that much in savage and its essentially the same as AD being tied to a 1 min cd. It's more of an equalizer for casual players who do dungeons and use quietus.

TBN being 10 sec duration is not op because the recast timer is 25 secs and in most cases that shield pops in the first 5 secs. Making the duration longer just increases the odds of it actually breaking and ensuring you get that proc. TBN is a shield and not compared to flat mitigation like rampart or shadow wall. Once that shield is gone you have 0 mitigation and shields by their design are only meant for high burst damage. Just because the duration is 10 seconds doesn't mean you have 10 secs of 0 damage and most times TBN is only up for < 5 secs currently.

TBN procing Oblation imo is like enhanced unmend. Technically a positive effect but so worthless its not even worth mentioning. TBN procing more TBN is much better because a free 25% HP shield is always good to have. No one is gonna complain for having more shields and the idea is you want to pair TBN with other cds. TBN + SW/DM/Oblation is generally what you would want and it matches the current DRK design. I still think TBN is a good skill but in comparison to the others it falls short by its antiquated design. TBN should feel good to use but atm I just feel relieved when it procs and annoyed when it doesn't. The other tanks don't have this issue.

[ItsUrBoi]

WAR's BW is strong in dungeons but in savage the heals at best can negate 2-3 autos if it crits (which is roughly the same as TBN).

That's not wrong but neither accurate. In savage for example you will use Bloodwhetting to mitigate damage from a tank buster OR when you need HP because you are low. The healing itself is surely 2-3 boss auto attacks, but you will get yourself to almost full HP and get 100% use of it while boss AAs will be dealt with by regens.
Meanwhile TBN cannot be used so freely at all - you have to keep your MP as high as possible for raid buff windows without over capping it either. If you use TBN too much you will have lower MP inside the raid buff windows and therefore less damage. So you cannot take advantage of the low 15 seconds CD that well - its not such a big issue if you don't have a ninja in your party since you have more time to generate resources.

I will say it again:
-> Pressing 3 or even 4 buttons on a tank that has to double weave for 6 gcds straight to not lose damage is not good. TBN should have Oblation built into it, it shouldn't be tied to MP.
-> Dark Mind could become a generic damage reduction or changed to offer some on demand healing. ( Ex of other on demand healing: Equilibrium, Clemency, Aurora )
-> Current Dark Arts could just grant the next Edge or Flood a healing over time or instant heal effect which is used after you mitigated damage. ( Similar examples: Knight's Benediction, Bloodwhetting, Catharsis of Corundum )
-> Living Dead could see adjustments like when healed to full, you don't lose the invulnerability, a slightly longer duration or a rework.

Kind suggestion for the job:
->The blood gauge is literally warrior's beast gauge. Remove it and try something with the Darkside buff granted by Edge or Flood. Anything would be cool - playing with the duration of the buff, converting seconds of the buff into something.
->Delirium can be a combo, or something that upgrades your actions to different ones, it doesn't have to be Warrior's Inner Release. Please. Blood weapon is alright since its purpose is resource generation but when the major offensive cooldown is a x3 bloodspiller... with no finisher and no unique feeling to it - that feels bad.

[baklava151]

Kind suggestion for the job:
->The blood gauge is literally warrior's beast gauge. Remove it and try something with the Darkside buff granted by Edge or Flood. Anything would be cool - playing with the duration of the buff, converting seconds of the buff into something.
->Delirium can be a combo, or something that upgrades your actions to different ones, it doesn't have to be Warrior's Inner Release. Please. Blood weapon is alright since its purpose is resource generation but when the major offensive cooldown is a x3 bloodspiller... with no finisher and no unique feeling to it - that feels bad.

I'm on board with this. Any changes to Delirium would probably have the biggest effect on its overall gameplay, and honestly I don't think I'd miss any of the Blood Gauge attacks, Living Shadow especially. I hate that they doubled-down on it being an IR clone for EW, I would have liked if they at least tried to do something different with it.

[Shurrikhan]

If the Blood Gauge is to be axed because it (and likely any other centigrade gauge) is "just Beast Gauge", what of Storm's Huton Darkside?

[baklava151]

What of them? The Darkside buff is different enough and can expanded on so that DRK's gameplay can be more of juggling act between MP and Darkside. That's why I'd advocate removing Blood and Blood abilities (or maybe rework Bloodspiller/Quietus, would still delete Living Shadow though) to make room for other abilities that play into that theme, they just get in the way if they stick around otherwise.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

What of them? The Darkside buff is different enough and can expanded on so that DRK's gameplay can be more of juggling act between MP and Darkside. That's why I'd advocate removing Blood and Blood abilities (or maybe rework Bloodspiller/Quietus, would still delete Living Shadow though) to make room for other abilities that play into that theme, they just get in the way if they stick around otherwise.

DRK already had resource juggling in SB between MP & blood gauge. The interaction was axed because the devs decided it was too complex for the average player and the devs wanted to streamline it. What makes you think they'd bring it back in a new form?

It's why I truly don't understand why people keep advocating for darkside usage. It's not going to add any complexity in the slightest that you think it will. The devs have already gone on record time and again they want job kits to have a very high skill floor, so tying things to darkside will simply make it so the devs tune the usage to be as brain dead easy as current Blood Gauge & Darkside are. Not to mention they already did this whole 'use a resource constantly ticking down to use moves while keeping timer active' balancing act in HW DRG. Guess what? That got extremely axed because it was cited as one of the more complex job interactions by Yoshi-P in a liveletter.

Darkside, MP, Blood, the resource doesn't matter. It'll all be tuned the exact same way - brain dead easy to manage in casual play, with the only true complexity being how to optimize for raid windows. If you want to give any sort of complexity to a tank, moving towards combo oriented gameplay like PLD is your only hope. As WAR, GNB & DRK are all brain dead easy due to the way devs tune resource generation on tanks to make their kits simplified.

[baklava151]

DRK already had resource juggling in SB between MP & blood gauge. The interaction was axed because the devs decided it was too complex for the average player and the devs wanted to streamline it. What makes you think they'd bring it back in a new form?

It's why I truly don't understand why people keep advocating for darkside usage. It's not going to add any complexity in the slightest that you think it will. The devs have already gone on record time and again they want job kits to have a very high skill floor, so tying things to darkside will simply make it so the devs tune the usage to be as brain dead easy as current Blood Gauge & Darkside are. Not to mention they already did this whole 'use a resource constantly ticking down to use moves while keeping timer active' balancing act in HW DRG. Guess what? That got extremely axed because it was cited as one of the more complex job interactions by Yoshi-P in a liveletter.

Darkside, MP, Blood, the resource doesn't matter. It'll all be tuned the exact same way - brain dead easy to manage in casual play, with the only true complexity being how to optimize for raid windows. If you want to give any sort of complexity to a tank, moving towards combo oriented gameplay like PLD is your only hope. As WAR, GNB & DRK are all brain dead easy due to the way devs tune resource generation on tanks to make their kits simplified.

I mean the way you're saying it, it sounds like something the devs decided on their own rather than basing it off player feedback. I don't know, I wasn't around for HW/SB but were a lot of people complaining about DRK being too complex? I know a lot of people have said it was fun but janky. Either way, the core issue is still that DRK is unengaging outside of burst windows, which is why I and others are bringing up Darkside because we want something to do other than 1-2-3. And I'm open to anything if they don't want to go that route specifically.

[shao32]

I mean the way you're saying it, it sounds like something the devs decided on their own rather than basing it off player feedback. I don't know, I wasn't around for HW/SB but were a lot of people complaining about DRK being too complex? I know a lot of people have said it was fun but janky. Either way, the core issue is still that DRK is unengaging outside of burst windows, which is why I and others are bringing up Darkside because we want something to do other than 1-2-3. And I'm open to anything if they don't want to go that route specifically.

Not much but there was some ppl that complained that they have to work more for doing less that the other tanks back in SB, most ppl wanted to reduce the amount of DA not being complety axed, ppl asked for Delirium being more important (use to be a blood consume buff that give MP and added extra seconds to blood weapon buff, 40s blood weapon 80s recast Delirium) not turn it in to Inner release made in china version, and a large ect.
So what we have now is mostly SE own goings, they just adressed some of DRK problems back then in SB just to ignore every single feedback and make it what it is right now, in other words "oh they complain about DA spam? ok lets delete the whole thing. oh they want Delirium being more important? mmm thats think to much lets just copy inner release, oh they don't like it? to bad lets just don't add anything significative this expansion and keep it the same", some ppl defend the SHB rework beliving it was a solid base for the job to expand just to get complety disappointed the job it's going to be exaclty the same with no improvements at all.

[Kabooa]

Not to mention they already did this whole 'use a resource constantly ticking down to use moves while keeping timer active' balancing act in HW DRG. Guess what? That got extremely axed because it was cited as one of the more complex job interactions by Yoshi-P in a liveletter.

A sorrow so deep only emptiness remains...

[Shurrikhan]

Not to mention they already did this whole 'use a resource constantly ticking down to use moves while keeping timer active' balancing act in HW DRG. Guess what? That got extremely axed because it was cited as one of the more complex job interactions by Yoshi-P in a liveletter.

A sorrow so deep only emptiness remains...

That... probably was the last interesting timer element we got. (Old Tri-Disaster and its refreshes would be a clunkier and far less modular or integral second place.)

Sadly, like Daeriion, I don't expect to see something like that again.