Dark Knight Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

Rather, burst damage is "better" than sustained damage because of the (these days, largely hypothetical) utility that it brings: Burst can be used to kill adds faster, to push specific HP%-based phase thresholds, or to deal with any downtime or forced disconnections better.

Which is still a capacity -- even if one we are never asked to sacrifice total/sustained damage (e.g., uses per fight) to exploit (for dps checks) -- that "continuous damage" (a euphemism simply for "less burst than most") jobs simply won't have.

"Continuous damage" does not, in itself, have a compensatory factor. Just as being able to do deal one's damage from range is, in itself, just objectively better than being only able to attack from up close, having burst is simply an allowance that not having burst does not have.

We can give "continuous damage" jobs other goodies to compensate, but the original lack of whatever (burst, range, mobility, etc.) will not be the basis for an job identity. It's what the job does to make up for that lack that makes a PLD what it is, what makes a GNB what it does, etc.

So what is it that you want DRK to have in exchange? To simply "not have X" is not going to be sufficient basis for DRK any more than it's been for WHM. It's how we fill that space differently that will give a well-designed job.

[Crater]

So what is it that you want DRK to have in exchange? To simply "not have X" is not going to be sufficient basis for DRK any more than it's been for WHM. It's how we fill that space differently that will give a well-designed job.

I think you're trying to reinvent the wheel where there's no reason to. The only thing that DRK needs "in exchange" for this sort of playstyle is "a lot of people find that sort of gameplay to be much more fun than the alternatives". That's it. No further justification is needed. PLD isn't some loser class that people only bring along when they absolutely need a second party mitigation skill or a tank that can briefly attack from range; a lot of people like its playstyle, and so it gets a ton of use. Neither would this version of DRK be.

We don't need to hold out for some galaxy-brain innovation or sit around wringing our hands about how it's hypothetically possible that a fight could come around that would be somewhat less advantageous to our class now that we find it fun to play at a base level. The aspects of the game that could conceivably turn this design into a disadvantage are things that the developers have intentionally minimized or outright removed from the game's design - if they ever decided to change their design philosophy and reintroduce those mechanics, then presumably that shift in design philosophy would also extend to class design, and the affected classes would be given something compensatory then. As of now, and as of the foreseeable future, there are no tangible disadvantages to an oGCD-focused, sustained-damage tank, and so we have no reason to oppose being given a class that fits that style.

[Shurrikhan]

I think you're trying to reinvent the wheel where there's no reason to.

Mate, you're the one who implied that a level of burstiness, and whether that comes from GCDs or oGCDs, are what we ought to be targeting in filling out tank jobs' diversity. I'm merely saying there's no damn point in following, let alone trying to fill, those categories. DRK doesn't have to be anything except fun and competitive. We don't need to fill typal quotas.

If you want it to strip DRK's burst, that's fine by me so long as it has something in compensation for that gameplay lost -- since managing burst will always have, in itself, more gameplay than not having any burst to manage. But shuffling things around or slapping a label on DRK isn't going to give it any more or less fun of mechanics. That'll come from everything else.