Dark Knight Megathread

[Lyth]

One community-based problem with tanks is the instant one job gets something vaguely unique and interesting, players start demanding it on other tanks as well.

Self-sustain is not mandatory for tanks. Group content is designed to be done with a healer backing you up. If you have a passive regen restoring your health every time you breathe, and you simply invuln-swap through every tankbuster, then it really just devalues the healing experience and makes it such that nobody cares about damage on tanks. Healers can safely ignore you and focus on raidwides, which are the real threat to your team. Games which have 'self-sustain' tanks have said tank be designed from the ground up around the concept. Warcraft's Death Knight is the classic example, where you have to use timed lifesteal to reverse the damage and make your HP bar less erratic. I don't think that works as well in this game because of the heavy focus on tankbusters and invuln-swap. The end result is a tank that can get hit by everything and survive to the end of the fight, only to die to the enrage because everyone else is dead. You're invincible, but also irrelevant.

[Shin96]

What needs to happen is for them to stop creating more and more jobs and focus on what's already in the roster.

We already have so many jobs which mainly are DPS. They have an opportunity to give budget to tanks and healers only for one expansion, in exchange for only one job. People love to play new jobs on release but usually stick to what they like after a while.

[Kalaam]

New jobs are one of the main attractions to new expansions. That's why pulls in new players who do not know the story yet. There will always be new jobs added, maybe after a bit it'll be job specializations to lighten the workload.
Apparently it was told recently that with Endwalker they reached the maximum number of actions a job can have, so we could assume most jobs will mainly have skill upgrades in 7.0. Hopefully this will leave room for those like Dark Knight to get the attention needed.

[Shin96]

New jobs are one of the main attractions to new expansions. That's why pulls in new players who do not know the story yet. There will always be new jobs added,

I'm aware of that. But maybe it's better to focus on what's managable than trying to print short entry passes for more and more players. The servers are already overpopulated and unstable at times; we don't need more players in my opinion.

[ThorneDynasty]

I don't know about that, especially with healers it absolutely feels likes the limited number of jobs is at least in part to blame for the homogenization problem. It'd be a lot harder to justify the design philosophy of all healers/tanks having to be equally accessible for every type of player if we had six or even five of each.

[MagiusNecros]

I think Job classes will slow down at some point given XI has 22 combat classes and XIV is now at 20. And the most any FF game has had is 25. Do I think we can go further then 25? Absolutely since the game revolves around the armory system and tying jobs to weapon type.

[Jirah]

I think Job classes will slow down at some point given XI has 22 combat classes and XIV is now at 20. And the most any FF game has had is 25. Do I think we can go further then 25? Absolutely since the game revolves around the armory system and tying jobs to weapon type.

Imma interject here and state the obvious “FF14 ISNT FFXI!”

The games that do have 25 are I assume is FFV where jobs are poorly balanced and only leveled for key skills not the jobs themselves. We do not need more jobs and should focus on what’s available sooner or later as it’s gonna be a balance issue and harder and harder for jobs to get a much needed tune up like (for a random example) DARK KNIGHT

[MagiusNecros]

Imma interject here and state the obvious “FF14 ISNT FFXI!”

The games that do have 25 are I assume is FFV where jobs are poorly balanced and only leveled for key skills not the jobs themselves. We do not need more jobs and should focus on what’s available sooner or later as it’s gonna be a balance issue and harder and harder for jobs to get a much needed tune up like (for a random example) DARK KNIGHT

XIV isn't XI and XI isn't XIV but XIV and XI are both Final Fantasy. *mic drop*

DRK overall has a poor future because they don't have dedicated devs that play DRK and understand it's issues and shortcomings. I really don't think it's going to change. You can make the same argument for Machinist. I think they "like" it where it's at.

Which I find very disappointing. DRK right now only has Aesthetic, good job quest story, AF gear and objective "fun factor" going for it. Class needs looked at. But I think Reaper is the devs answer to that. Which from the DRK perspective is a bad answer.

GNB I think has some restrictive problems but it isn't nearly as terrible as DRK and PLD/WAR are well designed.

My point is at some point they will have to reflect on the other jobs. I see a lot of love and care put into "new" jobs and primarily DPS but it really seems like they often flatout ignore or make small changes to Tanks/Healers.

Unless you are a Warrior. Warriors get everything. Paladin might be moving up to Warrior tier in terms of getting things.

[ArthurATDayne]

XIV isn't XI and XI isn't XIV but XIV and XI are both Final Fantasy. *mic drop*

DRK overall has a poor future because they don't have dedicated devs that play DRK and understand it's issues and shortcomings. I really don't think it's going to change. You can make the same argument for Machinist. I think they "like" it where it's at.

Which I find very disappointing. DRK right now only has Aesthetic, good job quest story, AF gear and objective "fun factor" going for it. Class needs looked at. But I think Reaper is the devs answer to that. Which from the DRK perspective is a bad answer.

GNB I think has some restrictive problems but it isn't nearly as terrible as DRK and PLD/WAR are well designed.

My point is at some point they will have to reflect on the other jobs. I see a lot of job and care put into "new" jobs and primarily DPS but it really seems like they often flatout ignore or make small changes to Tanks/Healers.

Unless you are a Warrior. Warriors get everything. Paladin might be moving up to Warrior tier in terms of getting things.

It's no exaggeration too because everything I complained AND nitpicked about WAR and PLD got addressed and it's still unsettling (in a good way) how GREAT the updates are going into EW.

DRK doesn't have any dedicated devs who understand the problems players have with it and it's super obvious i.e. Bloodweapon unchanged, Delirium only getting updated to stacks because WAR's Inner Release got it, Enhanced Unmend + Plunge LMAO, Lame Ass Oblation, Salt & Darkness TAHOO TWO, TWO oh yeah badass Fluff LOL, Shadowbringers... which should've been in SHB anyway. Oh and TBN is still 7s duration while every other Tank short CD is 8s duration at level 82+

The SquareEnix's grand vision of Endwalker DRK:

When Salted Earth is up I'm just gonna mash the F8 Key twice and get that 90s CD Fluff Skill out of the way, take advantage of having it, no extra thought is going into it because I'm not gonna wait around for mobs to stay in the AOE zone for any duration. Fuck this crappy skill, why is it 90s CD? Why isn't it 30s or 60s CD? Piece of shit fluff skill.

When Shadowbringers is up and Darkside Timer is active: Mash the Skill Twice and use up the 2 charges in a hurry. Unless there's a planned burst window buff that we all agreed on in advance, just Mash the Shadowbringers twice. I don't mind this, I rather like it because it's 60s CD and I get 2 charges to dump on mobs for big numbers.

[ThorneDynasty]

Then why is the most saturated role in such a better place than healers and tanks? I just don't see "too many jobs" being the topical problem.