Dark Knight Megathread

[Mostly_Raxus]

I want my sea anemone attack back

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

Since it did work back then, I would see no reason why to not...
Dark Knight could have the Abyssal Drain action made back into a GCD AoE with no self-heal, and again have the Dark Arts bonus of a self-heal, that is a actual worth it self-heal, rather than the weak Cure Potency: 200 of the in all ways inferior current Abyssal Drain.

As for the AoE combo, it could be set up with Unleash as the 1, while Abyssal Drain and Stalwart Soul would be the two 2s, that the Dark Knight can choose which to combo off of Unleash.
The idea would be that Unleash is the base, while Stalwart Soul is lower-damage with MP restore and BlackBlood gain, and Abyssal Drain is the higher pure-damage, but there would be the option of to use Dark Arts, to add a strong HP restore to Abyssal Drain... I would prefer it, but I doubt that, the devs would convert Abbysal Drain back to the absorb-damage-as-HP effect, though.. so I think that the self-heal would be some thing like Cure Potency: 300 or 400, and still per-target, not single target.

On that note, for the sake of "Balance", the slight higher potency of Abyssal Drain, would be equal to the potency of a Quietus from three Stalwart Soul,
so that the combo options are a choice, rather than the Dark Knight "need to" use which ever 2 of the AoE combo would be "better".

[Erit]

How to improve the Dark Knight player experience and veteran morale:

1. Stop taking things away from it.
2. Give some of the things that were taken away from it back.
3. Don't take those things away again.
4. Expand on the resultant framework.

Scourge, old Delirium giving the pretense of a meaningful combo game and making the rotation not feel like 2.X Paladin, the Blood Price and self-healing tricks making Dark Knights hilariously effective at taking out trash while incidentally really jiving with the aesthetic of the job as the Warrior of Light indulging in unhinged and self-destructive behavior. Living Dead's a trash cooldown but it's thematically on-point with the job being about the Warrior of Light being completely done with acting responsible for anything up to and including their own well-being.

Put that back into the job. Notice the playstyle that re-emerges. Now take that foundation, because it's a pretty unique foundation compared to the other tanks on offer, and build a madhouse on it.

Dark Knight is about us coming unwound and fraying at the edges, crumbling under the burden of expectations which have only gotten even heavier over time. Shadowbringers is the closest we've come to losing in a very long time. It's about time we reclaimed some of that traumatized, despair-tinged, almost nihilistic fervor.

That means having more substance to the job than a single three-step combo sequence and some stuff to weave in with it. It means that it should, in fact, at times feel like you're winging things and flying by the seat of your pants even after the egg-heads have calculated the mathematically perfect rotation for striking dummies.

I fell in love with Dark Knight on launch because it felt like there was some moment-to-moment decision making to do after I had spent fifty levels and hundreds of quests building up to Rage of Halone until I was falling asleep in Snowcloak from the noise. I took a hiatus and came back to Shadowbringers, and I don't like that the damn cancer infected the job I broke Nidhogg's face with.

Because it's not Dark Knight anymore. It's something that killed Dark Knight and is wearing its skin like a poorly-fitted, grotesque suit; like the alien from the old Men in Black movie.

Make me have to think again when I'm holding aggro, for God's sake.

-snip-

So turn the AoE rotation into something like the single-target one used to be; consistent damage with MP gain, then putting that MP into bigger damage with self-healing. I can see it working.

[Kalaam]

Being a Dark Knight is having a mix of a savior complex and a death wish.
Just like Batman.
Except the "non-killing" part.

I aggree that DRK feeling more...frantic? chaotic? Would be good. Maybe having a combo system closer to the Monk's could work ?

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

Being a Dark Knight is having a mix of a savior complex and a death wish.

for me, what made me first play Dark Knight, and was proven wrong later, is that I thought Dark Knight would be the escape, the means to get away from the nameless/voiceless no-real-identity PosterBoard hero WoL BS. to me, to be a Dark Knight was just to be a rebel, to turn against the BS light supremacy Eorzean mentality, and to stop being a pawn of the light.

I aggree that DRK feeling more...frantic? chaotic? Would be good. Maybe having a combo system closer to the Monk's could work?

Half in page 2 and half in page 3 of this thread, there was a chat between me and Shurrikhan about a theoretical open combo system...
If you have a idea of your own, feel free to share it.

[Shurrikhan]

DRK feeling more...frantic? chaotic? Would be good.

This, imo. So long as it still has some opportunities for good, decently complex setup and payoff (ideally, to the extent worthy of a villainous chuckle, or at least a good, dark smirk from behind one's helm).

theoretical open combo system....

Shoot, I remember now that I completely forgot to get back to you with a sample. Got about a third of the way through one based on the spitball frame from before, but quickly noticed it better fit Samurai, and haven't had a chance to complete a revamp. Well, that and I forgot.

[Kalaam]

for me, what made me first play Dark Knight, and was proven wrong later, is that I thought Dark Knight would be the escape, the means to get away from the nameless/voiceless no-real-identity PosterBoard hero WoL BS. to me, to be a Dark Knight was just to be a rebel, to turn against the BS light supremacy Eorzean mentality, and to stop being a pawn of the light.


Half in page 2 and half in page 3 of this thread, there was a chat between me and Shurrikhan about a theoretical open combo system...
If you have a idea of your own, feel free to share it.

Oh no, I'm not knowledgeable enough for that.

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

Shoot, I remember now that I completely forgot to get back to you with a sample. Got about a third of the way through one based on the spitball frame from before, but quickly noticed it better fit Samurai, and haven't had a chance to complete a revamp. Well, that and I forgot.

Better fits Samurai, hmn... /think
I did think about it on my own, left to my own thoughts, though... I came up with a idea based off of how combos function in PvP, with the combo being one action that changes itself, instead of three actions that are a combination, and then Kalaam's comment about Monk combos, made me re-think the idea a little, to make a bit more sense, although with still to use the 4-button A-B-C-D layout, to set up the action combos.

the concept is four actions that change themselves, based on what action was last used, to change into the next action on their own, in order to use eight different WeaponSkills across the four actions. My only reservation, before I claim that this concept functions, is: Does the design of how the actions combo also eliminate the repeats that would end the combo early(such as AA, ABB, etc.), and force that a full combo be gone through?, or is it possible to repeat a previous action and end the combo early?

I can think of how to make both ways function, but I am not certain which one to go with, lest I just create two concept, for both ways...

[Kalaam]

Wouldn't "transforming buttons" be more subject to server ping ? Has to be a reason why linear 1-2-3 combos haven't been turned into this overall. (I guess because updating them depending on your level and the abilities you've unlocked so far is a pain?)
Though this would free up so much space for more abilities.

[Falar]

My issue is that it seems we're getting punished for having so much in Heavensward. The damage, the AoE damage, the wall to wall pulls in dungeons thanks to Blood Price, Dark Arts Dark Passenger, Dark Arts Dark Dance, etc.

In Stormblood we lost Dark Dance, Reprisal (that did damage and had procs), Low Blow (that did damage and had procs), and many other things to the new "role abilities" and lost blood price and our Delirium finisher and Scourge. Basically a large portion of our identity was removed in Stormblood.

Shadowbringers brought some improvements but overall we are still a shell of what we once were. Maybe new players will never notice or think its great but I played in 3.xx and remember when the class was truly special.

It was so fun in HW I had no issues grinding endless dungeons for multiple Relic Weapons and playing from 3.2ish until the next expansion launched. In comparison I've been subbed less than half of the time the life cycle of SB and ShB.