Dark Knight Megathread

[WhyAmIHere]

-snip-

Have you even bothered to read any of the feedback folks have been giving in this thread? Why come in here saying you *know* why everyone's complaining... only to be pretty far off the mark?
Yes DRK is simple and easy to learn. That is both not a problem, and the problem. In simplifying DRK throughout the expansions, so much of it's kit has been stripped away to the point where it's near indistinguishable from WAR in terms of core gameplay loop.

Sure, some folks wanna bring back HW DRK; and sure, some folks might even want SB DRK back. The problem is that DRK is in this limbo of an identity crisis, and every expansion is more of a letdown than the last. People want to play a job that's identity isn't "WAR but it has TBN." People want to have fun playing a job, and to see in EW that it gets nothing in terms of a skill upgrade is insulting to those that were hoping to see it be given it's own identity. Hell, even WAR gets a finisher to Inner Release in EW. PLD's are getting a whole-ass new combo out of Requiescat. GNB's getting a 3rd cartridge and a 2 cartridge spender. WAR and GNB's invulns are being extended to 10s duration.

DRK is getting Enhanced Unmend and Salt and Peppered Earth.

There's an obvious disparity and lack of work put in to DRK in EW compared to the other tanks, despite the entirety of ShB there being numerous complaints about it in these forums. The EN forum's complaints have gone unheard and unacknowledged as evidenced by YoshiP not even being aware that there've been complaints about Blood Weapon's duration (along with Hyperdrive as far as high-ping issues go).

"Well if you don't like it just play a different job!"
People've done that. People will do that. People have already stated, here and JP, that EW DRK is a letdown and that the devs should look in to ways to improve it. 'Just play something else' is also an incredulously rude tone to take, as you yourself said that there're folks that play it for the cool factor being a DRK provides that, until EW and Reaper's reveal, were unmatched elsewhere.

I care not for your dismissive approach here.

[Shin96]

"Well if you don't like it just play a different job!"
People've done that. People will do that. People have already stated, here and JP, that EW DRK is a letdown and that the devs should look in to ways to improve it. 'Just play something else' is also an incredulously rude tone to take, as you yourself said that there're folks that play it for the cool factor being a DRK provides that, until EW and Reaper's reveal, were unmatched elsewhere.

Don't bother wasting your time on that mantra. Play something else has become the go-to excuse for anyone that cannot critically assess the components of the situation.

It's so simple in essence though. You are a tank, you want an edgy job, optimally it should be sophisticated enough to entertain you. It's not hard to grasp, yet, it seems rather easy to fluctuate towards disregarding any valid criticisms as long as it's comfortable to them. Good thing Reaper is here to join us.

Cult positivity at it again. Let's drown the voice of dissent and distaste for what this job has become; it's easier to ignore than put a sliver of thought into it. That surely will fix this job and the disappointments that will ensue later.

[Ryaduera]

Don't bother wasting your time on that mantra. Play something else has become the go-to excuse for anyone that cannot critically asses the components of the situation.

It's so simple in essence though. You are a tank, you want an edgy job, optimally it should be sophisticated enough to entertain you. It's not hard to grasp, yet, it seems rather easy to fluctuate towards disregarding any valid criticisms as long as it's comfortable to them. Good thing Reaper is here to join us.

Cult positivity at it again. Let's drown the voice of dissent and distaste for what this job has become; it's easier to ignore than put a sliver of thought into it. That surely will fix this job and the disappointments that will ensue later.

I agree. Being content with mediocrity and failure just because something else was better is the enemy. Playing something else is an option, but it is not an excuse nor does it forgive bad design, the bad design subtracts from the experience as a whole. This kind of mentality comes from someone who doesn't play the class to begin with. "But I'm having a good time?????" And we aren't. Your point?

[WhyAmIHere]

Don't bother wasting your time on that mantra. Play something else has become the go-to excuse for anyone that cannot critically assess the components of the situation.

It's so simple in essence though. You are a tank, you want an edgy job, optimally it should be sophisticated enough to entertain you. It's not hard to grasp, yet, it seems rather easy to fluctuate towards disregarding any valid criticisms as long as it's comfortable to them. Good thing Reaper is here to join us.

Cult positivity at it again. Let's drown the voice of dissent and distaste for what this job has become; it's easier to ignore than put a sliver of thought into it. That surely will fix this job and the disappointments that will ensue later.

A larger reason I have issue with the "just play something else" is it's so dismissive of others. "Oh you're depressed? Get over it, you don't have it so bad!" or "Just cheer up!" Wanna get something off your chest about an issue you're having? "Oh it's not so bad." or "Others have it worse, y'know."

I don't know if you're agreeing with me or not, but yup. "I like [thing], so therefore it's fine!" is such a trash argument in general when it comes to wanting something to improve that's panned by the majority. Yet I'm not glib enough to realize I'm putting in way too much effort/energy in to wanting more from something I enjoy, because it's not the only thing. It's just the out and out ignorance from the very developers about this is what's most insulting.

[Shin96]

A larger reason I have issue with the "just play something else" is it's so dismissive of others. "Oh you're depressed? Get over it, you don't have it so bad!" or "Just cheer up!" Wanna get something off your chest about an issue you're having? "Oh it's not so bad." or "Others have it worse, y'know."

It is dismissive, but not just in large part to saying go play something else. We're pushing back against their satisfaction. Except it's grounded in stagnation, not advancements. They like what they have right now.

I don't know if you're agreeing with me or not, but yup. "I like [thing], so therefore it's fine!" is such a trash argument in general when it comes to wanting something to improve that's panned by the majority. Yet I'm not glib enough to realize I'm putting in way too much effort/energy in to wanting more from something I enjoy, because it's not the only thing. It's just the out and out ignorance from the very developers about this is what's most insulting.

I agree. In truth you won't get everything you want but that shouldn't stop people from asking for change. It's a natural process and often times innovations are possible by taking risks.
In my opinion, I think alot of these people don't main this job. "Well.. don't play it!" Easy for you to say. This job never mattered to you over 2 years, you haven't gotten most relics, you didn't play with it everyday. Being anything but a DRK main is the time of your life right now. Shadowbringers is what got me into these forums, just imagine how much you need to screw up for an introvert to be vocal and social about it. They truly messed up, in my opinion. Even more so with 6.0

[Axxion]

Have you even bothered to read any of the feedback folks have been giving in this thread? Why come in here saying you *know* why everyone's complaining... only to be pretty far off the mark?
Yes DRK is simple and easy to learn. That is both not a problem, and the problem. In simplifying DRK throughout the expansions, so much of it's kit has been stripped away to the point where it's near indistinguishable from WAR in terms of core gameplay loop.

Sure, some folks wanna bring back HW DRK; and sure, some folks might even want SB DRK back. The problem is that DRK is in this limbo of an identity crisis, and every expansion is more of a letdown than the last. People want to play a job that's identity isn't "WAR but it has TBN." People want to have fun playing a job, and to see in EW that it gets nothing in terms of a skill upgrade is insulting to those that were hoping to see it be given it's own identity. Hell, even WAR gets a finisher to Inner Release in EW. PLD's are getting a whole-ass new combo out of Requiescat. GNB's getting a 3rd cartridge and a 2 cartridge spender. WAR and GNB's invulns are being extended to 10s duration.

DRK is getting Enhanced Unmend and Salt and Peppered Earth.

There's an obvious disparity and lack of work put in to DRK in EW compared to the other tanks, despite the entirety of ShB there being numerous complaints about it in these forums. The EN forum's complaints have gone unheard and unacknowledged as evidenced by YoshiP not even being aware that there've been complaints about Blood Weapon's duration (along with Hyperdrive as far as high-ping issues go).

"Well if you don't like it just play a different job!"
People've done that. People will do that. People have already stated, here and JP, that EW DRK is a letdown and that the devs should look in to ways to improve it. 'Just play something else' is also an incredulously rude tone to take, as you yourself said that there're folks that play it for the cool factor being a DRK provides that, until EW and Reaper's reveal, were unmatched elsewhere.

I care not for your dismissive approach here.

also this is the same person that believed that all healers was going to get the white mage treatment.

[Axxion]

At this point i really need to them to look at drk and figure out what they are going to do with it. It really lost it uniqueness and it not that friendly towards new healers/under geared healers, living dead. I cant tell you how many times that i died when i planed it out and the healer healed me to soon.

[Monimonmonmon]

Here are my proposed changes to DRK:

Walking Dead now grants invulnerability status.
Walking Dead debuff is removed upon reaching full HP.
- With Living Dead now being an invuln, reaching full HP from 1 HP is essentially the same as being healed for 100% of your HP. The nice thing with this change is, from the moment Walking Dead triggers, healers have the full 10 seconds to heal you as opposed to waiting for let's say a multi-hit tankbuster to end and then rushing to heal you with 4 seconds remaining. It's basically similar to Superbolide with the condition of needing to be healed to full, but better than Holmgang in the sense that you can be healed immediately upon triggering of Walking Dead. This justifies the cooldown being longer than Holmgang but shorter than Superbolide.

Oblation now lasts 15 seconds.
- A little buff to Oblation wouldn't hurt as this allows Oblation to be used as the "uptime" mitigation while reserving TBN for the harder hits.

Bloodspiller/Quietus extends your Darkside duration by 30 seconds.
Darkside max duration is 300 seconds.
Upon reaching max duration, Darkside duration is reset to 30 seconds and a Dark Arts proc is granted.
You can now store up to 2 Dark Arts Proc.
- These changes make Dark Knight's job gauge more meaningful. You would use MP and Blood to extend your Darkside timer which in turn rewards you with a Dark Art Proc. 300 seconds as the max duration can be adjusted to sound more reasonable.

Abyssal Drain now gives 20 Blood Gauge.
Salted Earth grants you a buff that freezes the duration of Darkside.
- These changes make all DRK's oGCDs related to one of their resources, with Carve and Spit replenishing MP.

Shadowbringer does not require Darkside but consumes 1 Dark Arts instead.
- This requirement sounds more reasonable as Darkside is never dropped. Having Darkside as the ultimate resource to use DRK's strongest oGCD makes sense. With it still being tied to a cooldown, you can use any extra Dark Arts proc generated from TBN on Edge of Shadows. But the primary idea is to be able to generate 2 Dark Arts proc from reaching Darkside max duration and spend them on Shadowbringer every 2 minutes.

[Deathshiro]

Just throwing my 2 cents in here, and I know its been said a million times... But I may as well bump the thread and do my do diligence.

Give blood weapon 5 stacks and make it an 18 second buff. The fact that you cant get 5 gcds doing your SPELLS, which are a main part of your AOE is just lazy game design. Step it up Square, its hilarious how this falls through the cracks for nearly 3 years. If anything in DRK's kit needed a stacking gcd ability like Bushin, it was Blood weapon, not Delirium.

[Bhearil]

Just throwing my 2 cents in here, and I know its been said a million times... But I may as well bump the thread and do my do diligence.

Give blood weapon 5 stacks and make it an 18 second buff. The fact that you cant get 5 gcds doing your SPELLS, which are a main part of your AOE is just lazy game design. Step it up Square, its hilarious how this falls through the cracks for nearly 3 years. If anything in DRK's kit needed a stacking gcd ability like Bushin, it was Blood weapon, not Delirium.

Would be about time that on jobs that use both physical atacks and magic that the biggest of their skill/spellspeed stat would count for both. RDM have also that desync GCD issue on their melee combo. Considering they can make so MIND scale as damage on healers is not that HARD to code