Dark Knight Megathread

[EthanXdeath]

Yes TBN is a cooldown, but it's not free like HS, HoC, or BW. You lose 3000 MP every cast, and the amount of MP regained between it coming off cooldown isn't equal, not only that, it's a straight up DPS loss if it doesn't pop, 3000 MP out the window that you can't get back and you could've used on an edge of shadow for damage instead. The other tanks just have better defensives overall and sustain. DRK has souleater and abyssal drain that directly correlates to the amount of enemies it hits and is on a 60 second cooldown. Personally I think DRK just needs a complete overhaul since it's basically a discount warrior.

[excelsiorjones]

Do you think DRK would feel better to play if:

* Passive MP regen was dramatically increased
* TBN had it's cooldown dramatically reduced (say around 10 seconds)
* Dark Arts could hold 2 charges

Thinking leaning into MP management as more of a thing.

[Ryaduera]

Do you think DRK would feel better to play if:

* Passive MP regen was dramatically increased
* TBN had it's cooldown dramatically reduced (say around 10 seconds)
* Dark Arts could hold 2 charges

Thinking leaning into MP management as more of a thing.

I don't think reducing the cooldown would help the main issue of sustainability or be healthy for the game. MP regen isn't necessary either, but would certainly help the defensives since TBN consumes MP meaning it's cooldown is actually shorter than it's realistic uptime. The main issue with DRK is sustainability. I'm pretty sure that, because of TBN and its cooldowns, technically DRK reduces damage taken by the largest amount, the issue comes from regenerative abilities and its lack of in long term situations. Every other tank can heal, then when they are done healing, they can heal until their heal is ready. DRK can just heal once off an oGCD every 60 seconds and once every 2 minutes. I think that because of this a better solution is to just throw a small HoT on Oblation or add heals to your Delirium combo and make Dark Mind do something useful. As it stands the main issue with Dark Knight is it just runs out of mits and cannot keep itself up long enough to see them come back.

But also, 2 charges on Dark Arts would be very nice.

[excelsiorjones]

I don't think reducing the cooldown would help the main issue of sustainability or be healthy for the game. MP regen isn't necessary either, but would certainly help the defensives since TBN consumes MP meaning it's cooldown is actually shorter than it's realistic uptime. The main issue with DRK is sustainability. I'm pretty sure that, because of TBN and its cooldowns, technically DRK reduces damage taken by the largest amount, the issue comes from regenerative abilities and its lack of in long term situations. Every other tank can heal, then when they are done healing, they can heal until their heal is ready. DRK can just heal once off an oGCD every 60 seconds and once every 2 minutes. I think that because of this a better solution is to just throw a small HoT on Oblation or add heals to your Delirium combo and make Dark Mind do something useful. As it stands the main issue with Dark Knight is it just runs out of mits and cannot keep itself up long enough to see them come back.

But also, 2 charges on Dark Arts would be very nice.

Thanks for the reply! I suppose I was thinking that more TBNs (especially during dungeons) would allow DRK to just straight-up not need as much healing in your average dungeon pack. I was thinking of it, like, "why not allow me to blow all my MP if I need it? MP is already a limiting factor, let me spam shields. PLD can shelltron back to back."

[Ryaduera]

Thanks for the reply! I suppose I was thinking that more TBNs (especially during dungeons) would allow DRK to just straight-up not need as much healing in your average dungeon pack. I was thinking of it, like, "why not allow me to blow all my MP if I need it? MP is already a limiting factor, let me spam shields. PLD can shelltron back to back."

PLD can Shelltron back to back yeah, but you really shouldn't. You have to build your gauge back up, it amounts to about 21 seconds of autos if you don't need to step away from your target. Damage reduction only lasts 8 seconds where the HoT lasts 12, so you want to keep those both working for you. You can, however, use Shelltron pretty much every 20s resulting in intentionally stacking defensive cooldowns, which actually increases the value of the regen that comes from Shelltron. The math here is a bit complicated and I... don't feel like doing it this time. But it means the HP value from the regen builds up to a significant number. The PLD has a regen totaling a potency of 1000 every 20s, roughly 30 thousand using my level 99 gear and tomestone accessories. DRK was given a 1200 potency once every 2 minutes. PLD has a 400 cure potency every 3rd GCD in AoE, then 400 cure potency on 4 GCD in Requiescat making 1600 over 4 GCD. DRK has a 40k shield every 15s but only 2 opportunities to fill that gap with any sustain. I really think a 100 or 200 potency regen for 12 seconds on Oblation solves this issue no problem, as well as a 10% mit on Dark Mind for all damage not just magic (Never forgive that Camouflage is just HW DRK Dark Dance reworked, buffed, and given to a different tank). 6000 heal potency over 2 minutes (not calculating Abyssal Drain because it's target dependent) will still not compare to the PLD with it's 2 minute heal potency total being 29,200ish (idealized AoE scenario) while also giving PLD a 1000 potency shield on top of it all. Baring in mind that Ramparts can amp any 20s window of that healing as well, and that, of course, those heals can crit, and over the course of a pull, they will.. (Why 2 minutes? Because that's when all cooldowns would be equally "reset", I do realize how infrequently you'd get all 2 minutes out of a single pull, but it's the simplest way to display the math, as well as using PLD because it's pretty baseline with what a "healer tank" should do)

That said, the reason I point out it wouldn't be healthy is because DRK would then just not take damage at all, even Warrior has to actually take damage. A lowered cooldown on TBN could work but adding the MP regen wouldn't. Outside if Delirium, it takes 6 GCD's to recharge 3000 MP for TBN, which is basically a 15s recharge anyway, so you'd have a burn mechanic for your MP, but again, once the shields are down, pretty much any damage you take sticks on you forever.

EDIT: Interestingly if a single 1000 potency heal on my gear is just over 30,000 HP then by that math PLD would heal around 300,000 hp with no crits or ramparts, which at 40k hp shielding from TBN is 7.5 total TNBs which also takes 2 minutes to burn through on a 15s cooldown if used entirely off cooldown. Obviously round up to 8. So if the healing without crits and without ramparts is actually the same as TBN, surely something is to be said for the extra damage reductions PLD gets from Bulwark, the greater value from HS compared to Oblation, and the passive blocking that does happen regularly? This kind of math is why TBN just doesn't work, it's too short term and with nothing to fill in the time inbetween when damage is properly taken. It's more damage taken with less health to bump survivability. The math is there, I don't know why the devs allow this to continue. Abyssal Drain also isn't really a heal to me, it's more of a "free bounce back once a minute" in pulls, but this could be attributed to my way of thinking with reliability and consistency and pressure to use it in burst windows regardless of current HP. That's why I haven't considered it into my numbers.

[Ryaduera]

snip

GNB Healing is also a steady 1200 every 30s from Aurora and 900 every 20s from HoC. Pit them together in the same 2 minute period and the healing is 10,800 (rounding up one cast of HoC) as well as a 20% increase in max HP (That can be harder to calculate its actual impact because when it falls off you can lose the health if you were full). That should be around 150,000 from my previous assessment of what healing does with my gear. GNB is third in healing for tanks and in a 2 minute window the disparity is still almost ten times the difference. Even if we assume 200 potency per target on a pull from a pull of 10 mobs that's 2,000 potency every minute adding only 4,000 making it a 2 minute window of 5200 healing, less than half of GNB still. The math is there, DRK just can't compare to the other tanks.

EDIT: Math error, wrong cooldown.

Heart of Corundum is also 25 seconds, not 20.

Over 2 minutes, you'll have 3 uses of Aurora (not counting the one coming back at the 2nd minute, because it hasn't ticked yet) and 4.8 uses of corundum.
That's 3600 from Auroras and 3600 from Corundums, so 7200 over 2 minutes, 8100 if you round up the corundum usage.

This being correct humbles what I was saying as a difference, but still eclipses DRK entirely, outside of AD usage of course. I wonder what the math is on damage reduction...

[rxantos]

My biggest complain would be the lost of Plunge.
The new animation is lame, does no agro does no damage. Nor does it feel natural to use as plunge was.

Meanwhile both WAR and PLD closers remain with their agro and their damage. Which removes the excuse of not having the damage or the agro.

[Conando]

If anything the other tanks need their self sustain brought down to Dark Knight levels.

That's not going to happen. It's been 2 expansions.

[Conando]

To add to that, even with the slightly meatier hits in DT, a lot of PUG healers refuse to gcd heal so it would end very poorly.