Dark Knight Megathread

[Colt47]

It absolutely doesn't matter if the job is a copy of another job anyway. What matters is if it is a worse copy than the others and unfortunately it is.

[GoatOfWar]

It absolutely doesn't matter if the job is a copy of another job anyway. What matters is if it is a worse copy than the others and unfortunately it is.

Well, any time Drk did something different the Warrior playerbase was up in arms about it until it got homogenised.. So that just brings us back to the same uncomfortable conversation.

[Absurdity]

Well, any time Drk did something different the Warrior playerbase was up in arms about it until it got homogenised.. So that just brings us back to the same uncomfortable conversation.

I know you're on a crusade against warrior but let's not make up some weird myth that warrior players somehow caused Dark Knight's 5.0 rework that just turned it into Warrior-but-worse.

[GoatOfWar]

I know you're on a crusade against warrior but let's not make up some weird myth that warrior players somehow caused Dark Knight's 5.0 rework that just turned it into Warrior-but-worse.

It's a genuine problem in need of push back.
Streamers steer community sentiment, and is what got us to where we are today.
War has historically cannibalised every single identity Drk ever had largely due to said streamers crying about Drk doing something remotely better than War.
The only times when they shut up is when Drk is inferior to War in every way like it is now.

[Colt47]

It's a genuine problem in need of push back.
Streamers steer community sentiment, and is what got us to where we are today.
War has historically cannibalised every single identity Drk ever had largely due to said streamers crying about Drk doing something remotely better than War.
The only times when they shut up is when Drk is inferior to War in every way like it is now.

The problem with DRK is that it is the only tank that needs to use Hyper Potions to survive in level 80 dungeons like the Final Days of Amaurot when you have a scholar healer and people are still learning the game. Heck, even if they know the game well healing a DRK in Final Days of Amaurot is a nightmare.

1) The fact it has so much going on compared to other tanks, like having two different resources and a shit ton of cooldowns to manage, makes it way too easy to forget to do something in a rotation. I don't care about "oh, you're not good enough" from people doing savage because that is BS. Savage is a structured fight where you expect to die and drill in when to use each thing, so in that environment it could be the most complicated piece of garbage on earth and it will still work. But the point is what they design HAS TO WORK for people leveling up in the game and handling the jobs.

1b) The devs are balancing damage based on using all of the kit, so if the job is more complicated to run than the other tanks and therefore has to do more to do the same thing as a simpler to run tank, what is the point to it even existing?

2) The devs need to figure out what the direction they want to go is. It can't really exist in this half foot in garbage design with the delirium energy management + cooldowns + having to deal with MP management + dealing with on the spot decision making between Blackest Night and doing a flood or wave of darkness. Especially since it can't even keep itself up during any of this decision making during high pressure moments, because it lacks any immediate self heals that don't involve group pulls. Even in group pulls, healing oneself up once from hitting 7 targets is nothing compared to a warrior with Bloodwhetting just mitigating everything and also self healing while aoeing multiple times over.

[Colt47]

I mean I'm running the job right now and sorting my feelings on it again just to double check my own thoughts.

I actually got a bunch of questions that only the devs could probably answer involving tanks in general.

1) In the design of the dungeons, is the intent that all tanks are supposed to be able to handle a single pack of enemies with a typical composition, or is the intent that the tanks should be able to handle all enemies within a walled section with a typical party comp?
2) When the tanks are built, what skills are dedicated for mid-high end content vs normal content? In the current design it feels like a lot of the skills are not necessary until we hit end-game even though we have them unlocked and the opposite seems to happen with lower level content.

Outside of that, DRK has a flow to it once it gets going, but I definitely feel like salt and darkness is unnecessary bloat even though it is on the same button, and blood weapon could easily be merged into Delirium as a single skill. The reason they didn't merge them appears to be due to the stretch between 68-79 since at that level we don't have living shadow yet and lack the extra skills we get such as oblation. Actually, when I look at it Oblation feels like it was supposed to be a buff to TBN, but they decided to split it into a separate skill since it doesn't synergize with how TBN wants to work. DRK is the one tank that doesn't want to have all their eggs in one basket because the intent is to have TBN break to give a bonus hit. It's like you are begging your healers to be worse at their jobs of shielding you and mitting because that is what TBN wants. :P

[GoatOfWar]

I mean I'm running the job right now and sorting my feelings on it again just to double check my own thoughts.

I actually got a bunch of questions that only the devs could probably answer involving tanks in general.

1) In the design of the dungeons, is the intent that all tanks are supposed to be able to handle a single pack of enemies with a typical composition, or is the intent that the tanks should be able to handle all enemies within a walled section with a typical party comp?
2) When the tanks are built, what skills are dedicated for mid-high end content vs normal content? In the current design it feels like a lot of the skills are not necessary until we hit end-game even though we have them unlocked and the opposite seems to happen with lower level content.

Outside of that, DRK has a flow to it once it gets going, but I definitely feel like salt and darkness is unnecessary bloat even though it is on the same button, and blood weapon could easily be merged into Delirium as a single skill. The reason they didn't merge them appears to be due to the stretch between 68-79 since at that level we don't have living shadow yet and lack the extra skills we get such as oblation. Actually, when I look at it Oblation feels like it was supposed to be a buff to TBN, but they decided to split it into a separate skill since it doesn't synergize with how TBN wants to work. DRK is the one tank that doesn't want to have all their eggs in one basket because the intent is to have TBN break to give a bonus hit. It's like you are begging your healers to be worse at their jobs of shielding you and mitting because that is what TBN wants. :P

You don't get a bonus hit, you get a refund of the mana spent on TBN that would have been spent on damage if it was any other tank.

[Colt47]

You don't get a bonus hit, you get a refund of the mana spent on TBN that would have been spent on damage if it was any other tank.

Thanks for adding the clarity to it. You're correct on it being a refund and the reason I was saying "bonus hit" is because with some jobs they give you that highlight around abilities when a proc occurs, which is telling the player to use the skill. In reality they are using it with DRK and TBN to help make sure the player cashes in on the refund, and the timing of the refund varies with how aggressive the monsters are in dealing damage to the player.

None of the other tanks have that kind of situation occur. They mostly are concerned with using procs when they need to in order to reduce incoming damage. With TBN a player can get punished for things outside of their own hands, like a mob getting stunned or deciding to use an AOE that is dodgeable. Since they changed this to "mitigation matters", it isn't advisable to stay in advertised AOEs even as a tank most of the time, though in Shadowbringers you could do that to help assure the proc triggered.

[ThorneDynasty]

A minor but an already huge improvement would be allowing stacking Dark Arts, so at least saving up for burst windows would be more feasible. But of course then the already stupid amount of weaves during burst should be dialed back, which would call for a more indepth rework of the job anyway.

[Oizen]

A minor but an already huge improvement would be allowing stacking Dark Arts, so at least saving up for burst windows would be more feasible. But of course then the already stupid amount of weaves during burst should be dialed back, which would call for a more indepth rework of the job anyway.

I dont know, I don't really want DRK to invest even harder into the 2m burst.
Its already 40 seconds of 123 spam.