Dark Knight Megathread

[Rithy255]

The Sustain topic is Interesting...

I think it's gotten out of hand with Warrior in particular, obviously one of the "key identity" of warrior was the high sustain (and high hp which is kinda lost), But when warrior has, on par mitigation, the best invul, simple rotation and insane sustain the problem becomes Warrior is just best at everything and isn't hard to pick up.

I personally Don't want buffed sustain like warrior, I think PLD's magic healing is already too much, Holy Shelton is fine, I would prefer a smaller amount of healing somewhere else. (Such as a way to make clemency OGCD once per minute or something, instead of all that burst self healing from magic attacks). Gunbreakers Sustain is in a great spot, Dark Knight I Ideally feel like it needs a overhaul in it's DPS rotation and some of it's defensive value such as Dark Mind (magic only defensive is kinda just... why? It's really good in raids but bad in dungeons? honestly just make it 20% it wouldn't change in high end duties), I wouldn't mind a slow drain sustain on DRK, but in general it doesn't need loads of free sustain.

if players want to avoid "homogenization" Then we do need tanks to fulfil slightly different purposes while also being viable, It's not a easy ask all the time, But If one tank isn't performing like the rest and needs damage buffs why is it also getting utility buffs? when that wasn't the issue in the first place. I personally want variations and differences in the game, but at the same time if people carry on to complain that "x isn't doing enough dps" (when it's perfectly viable, this was the case outside 6.2), then expect the jobs to have less Varity.

Personally warrior needs utility tuned down going into next expansion, all tanks could do with some tweaks here and there, I just hope dark knight gets a new rotation and is less OGCD heavy and more GCD complex. (also make it look more magic)

[Kalaam]

Straight up give +50 or +100% HP on warrior but low damage reduction stuff. It just takes the hits as is (outside of a few 120/90s cd) and then recovers.

[Shurrikhan]

Straight up give +50 or +100% HP on warrior but low damage reduction stuff. It just takes the hits as is (outside of a few 120/90s cd) and then recovers.

Okay, so let's think that through...

Even a whopping 50% mitigation only offers +100% eHP. Your +100% HP for WARs... would have WAR's walking around with the same eHP as every other tank having stacked their 2-minute and 90s CDs together... permanently.

And since you've nerfed the WAR's mitigation in "compensation"... there really is very little point in their actually using those CDs. They can meet virtually all tanking requirements by just... existing.

Now, +20% to +25% HP, atop a means of sustain that may require some loss of aDPS in order to maximize said sustain (such as per old Nascent Flash) so that WARs could decide for themselves whether to have best- or near-best in role damage or best-in-role sustain, but not both through a kit that allows for and builds off of those compromises? That would still be in the ballpark of sanity.

Not +50%, though. And certainly not +100%.

[Kalaam]

Okay, so let's think that through...

Even a whopping 50% mitigation only offers +100% eHP. Your +100% HP for WARs... would have WAR's walking around with the same eHP as every other tank having stacked their 2-minute and 90s CDs together... permanently.

And since you've nerfed the WAR's mitigation in "compensation"... there really is very little point in their actually using those CDs. They can meet virtually all tanking requirements by just... existing.

Now, +20% to +25% HP, atop a means of sustain that may require some loss of aDPS in order to maximize said sustain (such as per old Nascent Flash) so that WARs could decide for themselves whether to have best- or near-best in role damage or best-in-role sustain, but not both through a kit that allows for and builds off of those compromises? That would still be in the ballpark of sanity.

Not +50%, though. And certainly not +100%.

Of course the numbers are give are unthought examples, just to give an idea.
Thanks for doing the calculation and showing it would have actual value, now just needs to figure the right number.

[Shurrikhan]

Of course the numbers are give are unthought examples, just to give an idea.
Thanks for doing the calculation and showing it would have actual value, now just needs to figure the right number.

Again, 20% or 25% is probably a decent cap. My larger issue, though, is the idea that any tank should be satisfied to just "take the hits as is". That... forgoes the whole gameplay point of being that tank, especially if you don't then in exchange give them a unique/atypical means of sustain that is at least as involved as what most tanks get access to.

A tank should see use because it performs "tanking" gameplay in a way that players find more interesting/rewarding, not just because it can do all that jobs which actually partake in tanking "gameplay" can do... but without having to do most of that "tanking" gameplay. That is to say, the alternative shouldn't simply be a reduction; it should offer similar cognitive load and room for mastery. Now, that guideline exaggerates the difference you've suggested here, but still, I think that's a worthwhile guideline and still decently relevant.

[Kalaam]

I don't mean for it to *not* have a defensive kit, just repurposed around the massive health pool.
Kind of like a reactive toolkit after taking big hits to recover and stuff like that, which the lifesteal aspect kind of works well for.

[Marxam]

A tank should see use because it performs "tanking" gameplay in a way that players find more interesting/rewarding, not just because it can do all that jobs which actually partake in tanking "gameplay" can do... but without having to do most of that "tanking" gameplay. That is to say, the alternative shouldn't simply be a reduction; it should offer similar cognitive load and room for mastery. Now, that guideline exaggerates the difference you've suggested here, but still, I think that's a worthwhile guideline and still decently relevant.

That can easily solved by introducing more "wild charge" mechanics and just increasing the outgoing dmg. Since they aren't gonna change striking dummy bosses or their hitboxes, at least make mechanics where the tanks have to be in front to protect the party in the back. Introduce situations where you can't protect everyone and now you have to use TBN/NF/Int/HoC to protect the other party members that will be taking the most dmg instead. I would much rather have those than body check mechanics where your choices are either standing together or wipe is never a fun mechanic.

[Rithy255]

Straight up give +50 or +100% HP on warrior but low damage reduction stuff. It just takes the hits as is (outside of a few 120/90s cd) and then recovers.

Personally I'd give warrior 20-25% Extra Hp / GNB 10% More hp, such as PVP where hp differences is something. (anything above 25% is too much)

Warrior would have lower damage reduction stuff, but enough to survive encounters ideally, I guess I'd like warrior to get more of a interesting rotation if it's already just passively better then most tanks with a massive base Hp buff, So maybe give to more gauge spenders and stuff lol.

Other tanks should be able to more then make up for that with strong defensive skills.

[OdinelStarrei]

I think I would like to be able to hold 2 stacks of Dark Arts in Dawntrail.

[Rithy255]

I think I would like to be able to hold 2 stacks of Dark Arts in Dawntrail.

I'd like "dark arts" to come back! augment your abilities.

Also popping TBN should make the next shadow MP spender deal 10% more damage (other tanks should also get small benefits to using defensives timed well).