Dark Knight Megathread

[Absurdity]

In the pre-CrysCon days, Heart of Light spread your Brutal Shell to your party.

It was probably left over from when they wanted to split tanks into main and off tank, because it seems rather useless when you're constantly eating auto attacks that break your shield before you can spread it.

[Shurrikhan]

In the pre-CrysCon days, Heart of Light spread your Brutal Shell to your party.

I'MJUSTSAYIN'THAT'SACOOLIDEA.

Thematic skill interaction that also serves the same purpose? Lets get some more o' that please.

I mean, in the most general sense, sure, but unless you want to have to delay your Gnashing Fang just to force a Brutal Shell before multi-hit/stained magic raid damage and specifically wait until you've just been auto-ed to slip the Brutal Shell->Heart of Light in before the next, that implementation would not have been it.

Heck, anything triggering off a non-bankable GCD is probably a bad idea unless you're on a job that can significantly flex its GCD order.

[Kabooa]

I mean, in the most general sense, sure, but unless you want to have to delay your Gnashing Fang just to force a Brutal Shell before multi-hit/stained magic raid damage and specifically wait until you've just been auto-ed to slip the Brutal Shell->Heart of Light in before the next, that implementation would not have been it.

Heck, anything triggering off a non-bankable GCD is probably a bad idea unless you're on a job that can significantly flex its GCD order.

Brutal Shell should be triggering off spending ammo anyways, but that's beside the point.

[Duskane]

Dark missionary should get some sorta pseudo "counter" where its still 15% magic DR but on first hit party get a second wind tier heal

[Derio]

Both DRK and GNB need their party wide mitigation adjusted to be all damage. No reason why it should be limited to magical. P10s Harrowing Hell those two tanks provide almost nothing.

[Sazuzaki]

This is an ongoing issue with DRK, and another reason why I and many others think this job needs a rework with the new tank CDs introduced in EW, as well as the 2 minute meta.

To explain and add some context, I usually soak the duo tank buster in P10S alone. The healers feel it makes it easier for them, so usually I just pop Shadow Wall + Dark Mind + TBN + maybe Reprisal/Dark Missionary. The third duo buster aligns directly with the 2 minute burst, followed by an immediate tower buster which requires me to save mana for TBN, otherwise I tank a ton of damage from the tower. So there comes a point where I have to skip an Edge of Shadow on raidbuffs so I have enough mana to use for The Blackest Night. This also happened somewhere in the last tier, I think P7S?

Basically, putting tank busters right after 2 minute bursts sucks for Dark Knight because it makes you hold your MP instead of spending it on raid buffs. It punishes you for tanking.

I say remove the 3000 MP cost of TBN, but rework DRK to have other MP spenders that are purely for DPS. Make us manage our mana through our rotation, NOT our cooldowns.

[Oizen]

I do wonder how painful it would be to try to optimize TBN usage if it had no cost but still gave free edges. Imagine having to take 25% hp damage every 15 seconds.

[Sazuzaki]

I mean, TBN doesn't have to give free edges. If you wanna take the easy route, just slap a regen when it breaks. A cooler route would have it restore a percentage of damage taken when the shield breaks.

[Shurrikhan]

I mean, TBN doesn't have to give free edges.

It doesn't give free edges though. It merely refunds its own cost in a way that doesn't allow for TBN after TBN.

Remove that factor and you simply remove most of the timing complexity/skill-gap in TBN, replacing those considerations with something akin to anyone else's, with the cooldown likely increased by 40% in exchange. And with that reduced flexibility would come far less reward for knowledgeable pre-casting, %mitigation timing, etc.

I say remove the 3000 MP cost of TBN, but rework DRK to have other MP spenders that are purely for DPS.

I'd rather not. I prefer that distinction on/of TBN, especially when considering what it then affords and rewards.

Moreover, what added depth is particularly going to come from just having yet more oGCD attacks?

We could already (and should) just put an MP cost on Shadowbringer and perhaps Carve and Spit, compensated for with increased MP per Syphon/Stalwart/Bloodspiller/Quietus to shift some of our burst apm over towards our lulls (leaving room for defensives while also leaving us less bored between bursts), but then... do we really need yet another oGCD to hit per 20|30|40|60 seconds? Why not just reduce the CD of CnS and AD to 40, for instance, instead, or break AD apart from CnS's CD and have AD apply a debuff that effectively grants DRK Bloodbath against the target (lower % but longer duration than Bloodwhetting/Nascent)? Etc., etc.

[Sazuzaki]

It doesn't give free edges though. It merely refunds its own cost in a way that doesn't allow for TBN after TBN.

If TBN was free, yes it would indeed be free edges. I was talking about the hypothetical TBN Oizen said.

I'd rather not. I prefer that distinction on/of TBN, especially when considering what it then affords and rewards.

That's why I would rather funnel those resources elsewhere. If TBN just had it's cost removed, and DRK was left as is, I would just stop playing it and I'm sure many others would follow suit. That's why I'm saying DRK would absolutely need a rework if this were the case so we can actually actively manage our MP, rather than just bank all our MP for a burst only to get punished in the scenarios I mentioned.

I do like TBN rn. I like the flavor of having a cost to our defensives, but I just think there's other ways it could be done, cause current TBN can be pretty stupid sometimes. As I've said before, I feel like it's holding us back from getting other cool shit.

I like those other ideas you mentioned though. No idea why they didn't make Shadowbringer cost MP. There really was nothing to change up DRK this expansion.