Dark Knight Megathread

[Nosaji_]

Maybe the cost could be removed from TBN and we get some big MP spender (more than 3k) that could be used in an opener to avoid overcapping, something like Reaper's Soulsow/Havest Moon could be interesting.
It'd work thematically too considering that DRK is meant to be a dark magic tank, I think it'd be nice to have some sort of big spell to use.

[Shurrikhan]

once again you never balance around the absolutely optimal TBN pops every x seconds gameplay.

Nor did I say they would. But you do balance around some degree of TBNs popped per minute, which means any time you don't pop as many TBNs per minute as the devs determined as a reasonable balancing point, you underperform. Moreover, any time DRK would manage to pop more TBNs per minute than that balancing point, they'd perform as if overtuned.

Is that really a balancing lever you want? At present, the first TBN pop is a ~60-93 potency bonus, depending on one's raid buffs, because it shifts that MP back and into raid buffs. Because Trick no longer exists, any MP spent on TBN thereafter that would otherwise have been spent to avoid overcapping MP (so long as the DA stack is spent before being overriden) is DPS-neutral. Each that moves MP out of raid buffs is then a 60-93 potency loss, depending on one's raid buffs.

If you used TBN on CD right now, but popped each (and popping a TBN is not nearly so unlikely as you seem to make out), you could lose no more than 420-650 potency per two minutes. What you have been suggesting would instead cost you 460 every 15 seconds you fail to pop TBN, or 3680 potency per two minutes for not optimizing TBN. You'd trade a flexible defensive for a use-as-near-as-possible-to-on-CD offensive tool.

Maybe the cost could be removed from TBN and we get some big MP spender (more than 3k) that could be used in an opener to avoid overcapping, something like Reaper's Soulsow/Havest Moon could be interesting.
It'd work thematically too considering that DRK is meant to be a dark magic tank, I think it'd be nice to have some sort of big spell to use.

We worry about overcapping MP because it's MP that can't be spent in our raid buffs. Why would we purposely use a big MP spender, which to have reason exist must have more potency per MP than Edge of Shadow, outside of raid buffs?

[baklava151]

Regarding Bloodspiller/Quietus giving back HP and since we're back to the topic of DA again, they could make it where DA adds a lifesteal to those abilities. Just making it a more active choice rather than something that passively happens when you use your Blood abilities is more appealing to me.

[Shurrikhan]

Regarding Bloodspiller/Quietus giving back HP and since we're back to the topic of DA again, they could make it where DA adds a lifesteal to those abilities. Just making it a more active choice rather than something that passively happens when you use your Blood abilities is more appealing to me.

If that's coming at cost to the free Edge/Flood, then we'd have to actively avoid using Bloodspiller/Quietus until having used DA on Edge/Flood. Even some 600 potency of healing isn't going to be worth losing 460 ST or 160 AoE potency for.

So long as something is sufficiently bankable, its timing is an active choice (sometimes favoring raid buffs, sometimes favoring the reduced chance of a DF healer panicking and using a GCD heal). Locking the heals behind TBN, moreover, means making that healing far less responsive, something you may have to prep up to 8s in advance.

[baklava151]

If that's coming at cost to the free Edge/Flood, then we'd have to actively avoid using Bloodspiller/Quietus until having used DA on Edge/Flood. Even some 600 potency of healing isn't going to be worth losing 460 ST or 160 AoE potency for.

So long as something is sufficiently bankable, its timing is an active choice (sometimes favoring raid buffs, sometimes favoring the reduced chance of a DF healer panicking and using a GCD heal). Locking the heals behind TBN, moreover, means making that healing far less responsive, something you may have to prep up to 8s in advance.

I wasn't clear, that's based on the convo a few pages back about bringing old DA back but having it affect abilities in ways other than straight potency increases. It'd definitely be a bad idea on current DRK

[Shurrikhan]

I wasn't clear, that's based on the convo a few pages back about bringing old DA back but having it affect abilities in ways other than straight potency increases. It'd definitely be a bad idea on current DRK

Ahh, gotcha. My bad for not checking far back enough for context.

I'll toss my $0.03 into the old-DA hat, though:

Ideally, (A) make that DA not consume animation weave space (use your "Dark Passenger" / Shadow Self for it instead) as to feel less like it's cluttering your weave-space; (B) make it continue off of the most recent applicable action instead of having it augment your next applicable action, as to let it feel more responsive; and (C) avoid potency increases... unless --apart from the occasional rotational obligatory spender that you make sure to keep enough MP for, such as Carve and Spit-- they can truly be roughly equal in practice, with those nominally weaker spender options being situationally the strongest.

Examples (again, each involving hitting DA AFTER using the given skill, for a follow-up Shadow Self animation unique to each):

• After using Carve and Spit, you could hit it again on its cooldown (or a separate DA key if you want C&S to have multiple charges) in order to have your Shadow Self unleash a further flurry of blows.
• Dark Mind might initially last only a very short time, but if you hit it again while it's on cooldown, it consumes MP to extend its effect and add a further effect for which one needn't be especially responsive (such as gaining a bit of HP for each attack taken).
• Shadowskin replaces Rampart functioning as it did before, but you can re-use it to have each hit landed against you raise your Evasion (again, not an effect that needs to be activated so immediately).
• DA you Unleash to slow enemy movement and attack speed.
• DA your Stalwart Soul to fortify any existing shields based on damage dealt.
• DA your Souleater for extra healing, perhaps as a HoT.
• DA your Bloodspiller for a leech period.
• DA your Quietus for a brief buff that causes you to be healed whenever an enemy you've engaged dies.
• DA your Unmend to pull all enemies in a line between (and beyond) you and the target, up to Unmend's max range, towards you and suppress their damage dealt.
• DA your Syphon Strike to, in effect, bank MP (spending MP to generate a buff that generates that same amount of MP over time).
• Etc., etc.

All utility uses of MP.

[Marxam]

Ahh, gotcha. My bad for not checking far back enough for context.

They might be referring to the post I made a few pages back where I talked about ideas to bring back DA without making it intrusive and putting it on a 60 sec cd and have their tool kit revolve around it in a similar way that Infuriate works with WAR.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...thread/page295

Though I only gave just ideas on DA re-implementation and didn't really bother to go in-depth since its all hypothetical. Though I guess a decent summation is if you took WAR's Infuriate and 6.1 blood weapon stacks and combined them to create a stack system that augments your gcds and some ogcds to a much bigger extent, in an attempt to replicate 3.0-4.0 DRK.

Ultimately its only just potency increases with some resource regen to alleviate things like failing to pop TBN and some burst heals when needed. Things like blind, heavy, stun, etc. in pve content a ships that is long gone given the current player base and demographic.

[AziraSyuren]

If they were to go the old Dark Arts route of having it confer alternate effects to skills as well as raw potency, those alternate effects would still have to result in something DPS neutral if timed right or executed properly. In essence, they'd have to double down on TBN's design. I don't think that's a bad thing- I'd much rather it be a central theme to a job than simply one mechanic that doesn't fit in when compared to others of its ilk like TBN is now- it's just an idea.

They could even reuse the Living Dead thing where you have to get a certain return on self-healing to get a refund for your resources. That might be pretty cool.

[RyuDragnier]

Yeah, anything that's a potency increase is a bad idea currently. Hell, MP cost on DA is a bad idea currently due to the loss of Edge uses. So it'd be better as a charge system with charges coming back rather rapidly (think 15-20s recharges).

[baklava151]

Yeah, anything that's a potency increase is a bad idea currently. Hell, MP cost on DA is a bad idea currently due to the loss of Edge uses. So it'd be better as a charge system with charges coming back rather rapidly (think 15-20s recharges).

Alternatively, they could remove the MP cost from Edge, put it on a CD and move the Darkside increasing effect elsewhere. Like if I spitball a random idea, using DA on Souleater increases Darkside by 30 seconds.