Dark Knight Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

This is probably the most effective way to revise LD to have the same approximate limitations, without massively penalizing healers who Bene too early or who cannot overcome the tank's HP limit in time.
My only gripe is that Borrowed Time should probably be limited to 10 sec, since if any of it remains after 10 sec the tank is stuck at 1 HP anyway with no immunity.

That would remove most of the reason to even deal with the mechanic, though, wouldn't it? Especially in situations where damage would only be hitting one of the tanks at a time and raid damage isn't timed just perfectly to finish the DRK off (though, that would make for an interesting PLD synergy via Cover, at least).


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EDIT:
(Sorry; ran out of daily posts.)

Even if the barrier lasted the full 10 sec, you would be guaranteed to come out of the immunity period with only 1 HP, unlike even WAR and GNB's immunes where you can at least heal partway during that period.

Yes, which allows for breaking that barrier to be worthwhile, instead of just tagging out and outlasting it or using TBN+Oblation (20% mitigation for the first 4 seconds in this example, pushing you to an effective eHP of 31% health for that moment) to eat a further auto as necessary. If DRK itself didn't hold that capacity as to nullify that risk for a few seconds, I'd agree. But it does, and so for healing that barrier not just to be a trap, it must outlast the death-preventing effect. At that point, the more it exceeds LD's duration, the less normalized it will be to cheese the barrier, which will ultimately make LD more costly than it would otherwise, yes, but also less likely to go horribly awry and lead to the DRK's death. If it came down to it, I would rather reduce the barrier to 50% HP or have it instead fade over 30 seconds (so that it's down to at most 67% left, naturally, by the end of LD) than make useless any incomplete progress towards depleting it.

Nothing about the way you've reworked LD itself works to alleviate the burden it has on healers, only mildly reduce the penalty for having spent all of your resources and CDs before LD was popped.
Otherwise it relies on the DRK having... not spent all of its resources and CDs before using LD as a last resort like most tank immunes.

Such was the point, no? To not fundamentally change the ability outside of causing it to no longer damn near guarantee the DRK's death?

The amount to be healed is now clearly marked and failure leaves the DRK vulnerable, not dead; that's all. It's still a resource hog (though it certainly benefits from DRK's being able to heal for half its damage dealt over that period) because I'd not intended to change that in a minimal adjustment.

[Archwizard]

That would remove most of the reason to even deal with the mechanic, though, would it? Especially in situations where damage would only be hitting one of the tanks at a time and raid damage isn't timed just perfectly to finish the DRK off (though, that would make for an interesting PLD synergy via Cover, at least).

That would be the absolute ideal scenario though, relying both on luck and perfect timing.

As you have it written now, you have exactly the same pressure in place for healers -- heal 100% of the tank's HP in under 10 sec, or highly risk them dying the second the timer runs out; the extra 10 sec is theoretical. The key difference is the use of "highly risk" there, substituting for "guarantee" with existing LD, but functionally they would be the same for something like a dungeon pull with only one healer to help you.
Even if the barrier lasted the full 10 sec due to insufficient healing, you would be guaranteed to come out of the immunity period with only 1 HP (and even if you manage to crack the barrier in the last couple seconds before the immunity ends, the DRK's HP is still cripplingly low), unlike even WAR and GNB's immunes where you can at least heal partway during that period and are likely to come out of it with something. Having that period extend even past the point LD provides a benefit is overkill.

Nothing about the way you've reworked LD itself works to alleviate the burden it has on healers, only mildly reduce the penalty for having spent all of your resources and CDs before LD was popped.
Otherwise it relies on the DRK having... not spent all of its resources and CDs before using LD as a last resort like most tank immunes, without an on-demand that can shore up its main flaws.

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EDIT:

Such was the point, no? To not fundamentally change the ability outside of causing it to no longer damn near guarantee the DRK's death?

The amount to be healed is now clearly marked and failure leaves the DRK vulnerable, not dead; that's all. It's still a resource hog (though it certainly benefits from DRK's being able to heal for half its damage dealt over that period) because I'd not intended to change that in a minimal adjustment.

I guess so, through the lens of bare minimalism. I'm just thinking of the times I've seen Walking Dead activate in dungeons and just resigned myself to the DRK's death, and imagining if it'd have the same result. I can't help but wonder if this solution would feel worse to use as someone without Bene; even with the revision, I wouldn't get the consolation that if I'd somehow succeeded as SGE or some other, the DRK would have some HP in the tank, since all of the HP it absorbed is just... gone.

Still, fingers crossed that any update to LD doesn't occur in a vacuum. More sustain for the DRK would mean lower odds of (and marginally less pain from) seeing LD at all, right?

I suppose it just creates a greater appreciation for how terrible LD feels as a tank immune, being the most oppressive to the healers (not least because of how its design may or may not impact DRK's lackluster self-healing). Even with adjustments to address its most glaring concerns to the letter, we can still spot blistering flaws that make it continue to stand out as the worst ability in its class, as the only one built with an actual penalty.
Bonus points for how WAR and GNB's on-demand tools synergize with their own immune skills, especially after 82.

Long and short of what I'm saying is, personally, trying to work around what we have is not the solution I would favor if the alternative was going back to the drawing board with LD entirely... and I'm sure I'm far from alone in that.

[Shurrikhan]

Long and short of what I'm saying is, personally, trying to work around what we have is not the solution I would favor if the alternative was going back to the drawing board with LD entirely... and I'm sure I'm far from alone in that.

That's fair. I gave that idea earlier in direct response to the idea that things would have to be hugely/fundamentally reworked (perhaps towards homogeneity) --and thereby delayed until much later-- in order to shore up DRK's weaknesses. The LD design given was my way of showing that we wouldn't need to, say, drop any sort of punishment from LD entirely (making it merely Holmgang-with-a-pre-pop-period) or the like to deal with its biggest problem. (Nor would any of the other capacity issues need huge reworks, and thereby long delays, nor homogeneity, to be corrected.)

Personally, I'd like for LD to still have an element of fighting against time, but if it were to thereby be objectively weaker than Holmgang (in terms of resources required or effective duration -- whatever may cause that weakness), then it ought also to have a shorter CD than Holmgang. (Personally, I thought Holmgang fit a much better and more interesting balance when it was only 6 seconds long.)

[Baxcel]

Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain cooldowns reduced to 40 seconds and given a second charge (put 2 into each raid 120s raid window; 1 between), with free ppm kept as before. For instance, have them each cost 3000 MP instead of granting 600 MP; to match C&S's 510 ppm, C&S would then have to deal 800 potency (340 free potency per cast, down 2/3s of 510). Abyssal Drain, which already needed a slight buff regardless, could deal 270p (keeping its current power would place it at 260; this buff simply lets it faintly push ahead at 3 targets) and heal for damage dealt (->270n potency). Additionally, let C&S heal for half its damage dealt (->400 potency).

I'm sorry but no not more of this.. C&S should not be on a shared cooldown with AD and AD should not have a mana cost.. it should be returned to it early StB days of being a GCD for health sustain when mass pulling..

[Shurrikhan]

I'm sorry but no not more of this.. C&S should not be on a shared cooldown with AD and AD should not have a mana cost.. it should be returned to it early StB days of being a GCD for health sustain when mass pulling..

You realize for it to heal it still consumed over a quarter your MP per cast in Stormblood, a period during AoEs gave no MP (via Blood Weapon or otherwise)?

[MagiusNecros]

You realize for it to heal it still consumed over a quarter your MP per cast in Stormblood, a period during AoEs gave no MP (via Blood Weapon or otherwise)?

BLOOD PRICE BABY

[Shurrikhan]

BLOOD PRICE BABY

Was limited to Grit and could only afford around two DA-ADs even in dungeons with pulls as dense as Ala Mhigo's dog pull. And then you'd have 40 seconds before you could again regen any MP if you stuck to Grit.

Blood Weapon -> Quietus was the larger factor.

[Malthir]

Dev clearly want Drk to be the high DPS tank, and that inherently comes with issues.

They can't boost our DPS anymore, because for progression you "might" take a Warrior MT, but you will certainly take Drk OT while you are learning mechs, then immediately swap them out for 2 Drks to increase clear speed. If we went even higher in DPS this would be worse.
At the same time they cannot increase our mitigation too much as the same issue occurs, our DPS outstrips all other tanks by so much that you just wouldn't take any other tank.

Functionally we aren't broken, we're just not fun, it sucks to play. Yeah living dead is terrible to the point of broken but it's always sucked that's nothing new.
Yes white damage is higher against us than any of the other tanks but If you execute your rotation properly you should be able to balance your defensive cooldowns to mitigate damage in-between TBN presses. Outside of that use our higher DPS to clear the pack faster, if you kill 3 seconds faster that's 3 seconds worth of damage you didn't take. Unless the healer just refuses to heal you wont die just pulling in dungeons, but then at that point any tank other than current warrior dies too. Bosses are easy as anything, their white damage is ignorable and we have the best boss mit in the game, even if it is boring.

There is no point in dev patching us. The only thing we can ask for, is a rework, make us fun to play again. Currently there's nothing broken we are working as intended

Also bring back power slash it was the coolest animation we had and I'm still pissed it was taken away.

[Kalaam]

Power Slash loops in itself pretty well too, it would be a great spammable. Better than bloodspiller imo

[Derio]

At this point I am hoping they say something in the live letter regarding DRK but at the same time expect nothing.