Dark Knight Megathread

[Sacrilegion]

Drk is good at only one thing, that is dps (for a tank) they have no way to sustain themselves, have the worst invuln where only WHM can guarantee it won't kill them, ultra bloated opener, and so many niche skills. I even considered taking LD off my bar because majority of the can't handle it and won't even to, they'll just let you die. Shadowbringer should be tied to Dark Arts so you are encouraged to use TBN, TBN should heal you for the damage it mitigates plus a regen. Also, the pvp buff to Bloodspiller and Quietus NEED to be added to pve as well. LD needs the doom mechanic gutted from it entirely, screw lore, DRK should not male healers hate themselves. Do that, I could justify the EW additions to DRK.

[Sacrilegion]

The problem is that that is literally where TBN is at its strongest, and yet no matter how many times any of us come in here with an actual argument backed up by real logs of existing game content or even just simple arithmetic based on the game's mechanics and tooltips, we are constantly met with "Hm, sorry but I have to disagree with basic, straightforward mathematics, btw here's a link to a Youtube clown" followed by turning back to everyone else participating in the evidence-free circlejerk about how it's a bad skill in dungeons.

It's all risk and the reward is the minimum of what the other 3 can do. You have to build whole comps around DRK or it fails. It's too rigid and it's reward is only pulling 2% ahead in dps over GNB. It's the epitome of "random shit go, hope it's cohesive" or "glad y'all are having a good time, cause I'm about to die." It's not a circle jerk, it's we want to enjoy DRK and not have to be in a static to do it. It's a confused dps in fending armor until REAL work happens to it.

[MagiusNecros]

TBN + Oblation would be better if Oblation was 20% mitigation. It would amount to about 30% mitigation across 3 separate 15 second windows with Rampart, Ob1, Ob2, and then a beefier Shadow Wall window. And I feel at that point DRK at 90 has good mitigation.

Oblation as is, is probably too weak from a Tanking perspective.

A level 82 skill has no business being weaker then Rampart which is 90s CD for 20 seconds as opposed to 10. Rampart does double the work and is available at lvl8.

And the lack of sustain will not help the DRk where sustain is needed or if Walking Dead pops.

Furthermore the best healer to pair DRK with is also the worst since it's going to be pointless using TBN if they will be stunlocked by Holy Spam anyway and then the mob group is dead.

Now raids different story. It very much is White Mage with the chokehold that is Benediction.

[Shurrikhan]

TBN + Oblation would be better if Oblation was 20% mitigation.

A 20% Oblation might be overkill. It need only compete with the other lv82 effects given its longer than normal 1-minute CD (rather than a shorter-than-average, 15-second one).

A level 82 skill has no business being weaker then Rampart which is 90s CD for 20 seconds as opposed to 10.

Then should they also be stronger than our invulns, given that they're mere lv50 skills? The level is irrelevant except in that Oblation, Catharsis and Clarity (Corundum's bonuses), Resolve and Benediction (Holy Shelltron's bonuses), and Stem the Flow and Stem the Tide (Bloodwhetting's bonuses) were also gained at the level and Oblation is obviously meant to compete with them.

Are Catharsis and Clarity stronger than Rampart? Knight's Resolve and Knight's Benediction? Stem the Flow and Stem the Tide? Again, those are all we need Oblation to compete with. They may be more valuable than Rampart; they may be less. It doesn't matter, though. Rampart isn't our benchmark. The added trait effects are.

Furthermore the best healer to pair DRK with is also the worst since it's going to be pointless using TBN if they will be stunlocked by Holy Spam anyway and then the mob group is dead.

Unless you're running old content unsynced, mob groups are not going to die within the Holy spam's stunlock (which is rarely even a true stunlock).

You can pop a TBN before your average DF WHM even gets their first Holy off. Failing that, unless they open with Swiftcast, the 2nd Holy will hit while the enemies are already stunned and will be resisted, allowing through an auto from each, and successful stun after that won't have sufficient duration to chain-stun, allowing yet another auto through just 2 seconds later. You still have 4 seconds thereafter in which those stuns cannot delay autos (as they will only prevent AA completion, not stop progression towards next AA). Long story short, only a Swiftcast-opened Holy spam, with its initial chained 6 seconds' duration, can possibly prevent TBN. You can watch your WHM's buffs to see whether they're going to do that, run sufficiently ahead and get your first TBN usage done with first anyways, or at worst wait 3-4 seconds. WHM does not, however, screw you over. In most cases, you'll no reason even to notice they're stunning at all.

[Oizen]

Well honestly I don't think Oblation needed to exist at all. DRK already had Rampart, Shadow Wall, Repraisal, Dark Mind and Dark Missionary on top of TBN.
If you've somehow managed to exhaust all that, I don't think a 10% mitigation is going to save you.

It desperately needs more utility rather than pure defenses, whether that be a heal or MP generation or whatever, thats up for discussion. But as it stands, oblation isn't terribly useful.

[Ultaniku]

Oblation just doesn’t feel satisfying, especially if used alone. Using it with TBN feels okay defensively but I dunno. Oblation doesn’t do it for me as is.

[Sacrilegion]

Well honestly I don't think Oblation needed to exist at all. DRK already had Rampart, Shadow Wall, Repraisal, Dark Mind and Dark Missionary on top of TBN.
If you've somehow managed to exhaust all that, I don't think a 10% mitigation is going to save you.

It desperately needs more utility rather than pure defenses, whether that be a heal or MP generation or whatever, thats up for discussion. But as it stands, oblation isn't terribly useful.

This exactly. DRK needs a level 82 upgrade for TBN and it do the same as HOC and HS. We really don't need anymore buttons to press, we need improvements to the overall kit and Living Dead.

[Garlan]

I don't think 6.08 will change DRK too much. If we are lucky, we might get a QoL charge system for Blood Weapon, but I think that is the best we can hope for. DRK will absolutely get altered in future patches, but PLD and DNC are in more dire straits than DRK is atm, so resources will be going to them first.

I can totally see Oblation getting a buff down the line, and if the (respectful) outcry is perpetual enough, I think LD getting adjusted to not be so detrimental isn't off the table either.

[Dracosavarian]

I don't think 6.08 will change DRK too much. If we are lucky, we might get a QoL charge system for Blood Weapon, but I think that is the best we can hope for. DRK will absolutely get altered in future patches, but PLD and DNC are in more dire straits than DRK is atm, so resources will be going to them first.

I can totally see Oblation getting a buff down the line, and if the (respectful) outcry is perpetual enough, I think LD getting adjusted to not be so detrimental isn't off the table either.

Yeah, I agree that you are likely correct. But, as you said, even if it's a few QoL changes such as charges for Blood Weapon, or slight increases to Oblation, I'll take it in the short term.

I'm just concerned that even with as Vocal as we have been...that our perception of the issues doesn't match up with what the developers believe to be the problems. I'm firmly entrenched in the camp that Dark Knight needs an overhaul, or a complete rework. It's identity, I feel, needs to be re-established so it's not Warrior 2.0 ( Now with Zero Calories! )

Dark Knight right now has three issues that I see as being the primary problems with it.

1: Lack of Identity - Especially compared to Heavensward, where it was a Tank that strode with Confidence into a storm of blood and fury and used the pain the enemy inflicted upon it to fuel it's abilities in reprisal against them.

2: Lack of Impact - I personally despise ( Nay, hate and absolutely loathe, especially in comparison to how awesome Fell Cleave looks and feels ) Bloodspiller's animation, and feel the animation has little to no impact, and think Carve and Spit and even Souleater has more OOMPH to them. Salt and Darkness doesn't feel enjoyable to press, has no real impactful sound effects and if you blink, you'll miss it's effects. And Shadowbringer flies by so bloody fast you can't even really enjoy using it. Especially in comparison to Primal Rend. As some examples. Put bluntly, quite a few of these abilities do not feel " Fun " to press the button for them.

3: Lack of Sustain - Two primary causes - Lack of healing ( Only Souleater + Abyssal Drain ) and defensive abilities that have niche scenario uses ( Looking at you Dark Mind )

I could go on...but, if they address those three problems, I think we'll be in a much better place.

[MagiusNecros]

We will see with 6.08. I feel like they were really avoiding talking about Tank/Healer changes at all. And their radio talk only added in that extra changes will be made even if not listed damage control comment likely because the JP playerbase is about as negative as other regions are.

It's a miracle they even mentioned a DPS buff for PLD.