Dark Knight Megathread

[RyuDragnier]

The problem with DA in SB was that they removed a lot of its interaction with defensive cooldowns, so it just became an "ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!" button instead of something you had to think about. Imagine if DA returned as an oGCD, and was used to change moves into other ones. Unmend to Abyssal Drain, Unleash to Salted Earth, Dark Mind to Dark Messenger, Oblation (if they change it so it's at a much earlier level) to TBN, etc, without adjusting the damage to our main damage skills, it'd be much better received since it'd be used for multiple defensive and offensive abilities.

[Garlan]

The problem with DA in SB was that they removed a lot of its interaction with defensive cooldowns, so it just became an "ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!" button instead of something you had to think about. Imagine if DA returned as an oGCD, and was used to change moves into other ones. Unmend to Abyssal Drain, Unleash to Salted Earth, Dark Mind to Dark Messenger, Oblation (if they change it so it's at a much earlier level) to TBN, etc, without adjusting the damage to our main damage skills, it'd be much better received since it'd be used for multiple defensive and offensive abilities.

The problem of DA eating all of our oGCD slots would still remain, if not be become worse than 4.0. In 4.0, DA was mostly used to enhance GCD attacks, yes, but having to use an oGCD to enhance a critical, MP consuming oGCD (TBN for example) would be brutal when you are forced to cram it into frantic opener/dual-TB scenarios. Plus, using DA to make a GCD activate an oGCD (Salted) or using DA to consume a personal defensive to activate an aoe defensive is all forms of jank.

[RyuDragnier]

The problem of DA eating all of our oGCD slots would still remain, if not be become worse than 4.0. In 4.0, DA was mostly used to enhance GCD attacks, yes, but having to use an oGCD to enhance a critical, MP consuming oGCD (TBN for example) would be brutal when you are forced to cram it into frantic opener/dual-TB scenarios. Plus, using DA to make a GCD activate an oGCD (Salted) or using DA to consume a personal defensive to activate an aoe defensive is all forms of jank.

Then make it a 1.5s GCD like Eukrasia. DRK needs an identity right now, and if the devs are so willing to use a variation of DA for healers, then I see no issue with making DA DRK's job identity again, since you're using your dark magic to alter your own abilities and skills.

[Weetzlo]

The problem of DA eating all of our oGCD slots would still remain, if not be become worse than 4.0. In 4.0, DA was mostly used to enhance GCD attacks, yes, but having to use an oGCD to enhance a critical, MP consuming oGCD (TBN for example) would be brutal when you are forced to cram it into frantic opener/dual-TB scenarios. Plus, using DA to make a GCD activate an oGCD (Salted) or using DA to consume a personal defensive to activate an aoe defensive is all forms of jank.

Our current opener has 7 out of 8 GCDs double weaving without any defensives. Also having one button to press after every hit sounds a lot like Continuation to me. I'm not exactly arguin FOR these things but like you can't say it's problem that the devs fixed or seem to want to address. If I can have the same problem, but at least with Dark Arts flavor, I'll take it

[Garlan]

Our current opener has 7 out of 8 GCDs double weaving without any defensives. Also having one button to press after every hit sounds a lot like Continuation to me. I'm not exactly arguin FOR these things but like you can't say it's problem that the devs fixed or seem to want to address. If I can have the same problem, but at least with Dark Arts flavor, I'll take it

I get what you meant in your reply, but my skepticism was more regarding the whole "having to use DA to upgrade Oblation into TBN" along with Unleash needing DA to transform into Salted. Those concepts seem a bit clunky to me.

[Weetzlo]

I get what you meant in your reply, but my skepticism was more regarding the whole "having to use DA to upgrade Oblation into TBN" along with Unleash needing DA to transform into Salted. Those concepts seem a bit clunky to me.

I'll agree with that. DA should actually change abilities, not upgrade them. C+S does big damage OR gives MP, not both type deal. They just need to adjust numbers to make it a real choice because the MP given back in the day was never even kinda worth the loss of your big boi attack. Eukrasia has the right idea.

[Duskane]

I don't want the entirety of 3.0 Drk to return but I do want some things 3.0 and 4.0 had

Dark knight is/was the speedy counter attack Tank
parry would proc Reprisal and reset low blow

TBN broke and gave you 50 blood

TBN breaks get a ""free"" flood/edge

blood weapon gave haste

but we can't fully grasp this identity because
tying defensive skill to an offensive skill and forcing Drk as MT is bad design.

I don't care if its easy or complex I just want this job to have some semblance of its older self AND have some form of gameplay mechanic which other 3 do just fine

PLD cycles through magic and melee
WAR revolves around cleaves
GNB is cartridge management

Dark knight has what? MP spender the has no real impact outside of damage buff and takes
no effort to keep up, A gauge thats incredibly basic and adds almost nothing to the rest of the kit then just a bunch of random ogcd that also have little to no synergy with the kit and the one ability the tries to tie things together doesn't even work most the time (blood weapon).
the dev team needs to rethink about this jobs gameplay and Kit it does not need an aesthetic overhaul.

[Duskane]

DRK was good but its never been WAR good
MNK and PLD also had a permanent 10% debuff

[Undeadfire]

DRK was good but its never been WAR good
MNK and PLD also had a permanent 10% debuff

Drk removed any means of needing Mnk since it also did -10% INT, except it was on Dark Knights rotation, and they did not stack, meaning useless. Paladin only had Veil, and Halone for -10% Str, Drk did both STR/INT -10% and clipped Plds DPS 200-300 more. No one took an Ast since it was useless till it received crazy buffs in 3.4 the Creator raid, Bene always kept for LD, 2 mins advantage.

Also going through the fastest top 5 runs on every Savage raid, Paladin hardly existed to any of them, DRKs DPS even level with Warrior, or Below/higher than Warrior, which is essentially Crit RNG game at this point, except Fell Cleave Crit RNG valued higher. Drk low blow spamming crushed Paladin. Raid DPS enhancing is a DPS enhancement, major damage reductions for every raid member over any other tank is broken, Reprisal had to be changed to all tanks, it was Virus 2.0 exclusive to Drk, original Virus all casters/healers could use on a rotated spam for -10% strength.

Edit: My Mistake -20% INT for the raid group, Delirium -10% INT, Reprisal -10% INT/STR.

[Duskane]

Dark wasn't OP Paladin was just terrible in HW and MNK did not stand a chance between NIN and DRG ,DRK at the time was just the final nail in the coffin for MNK.