Giving Whm an identity

[Roeshel]

"Not Ninja" is not an excuse for a 12.5 second uptime prep time on a mitigation option, be that for entirely scripted, predictable damage or otherwise.


Never said it was. I only stated that you don't get to forgo any and all issues of responsiveness in the name of novelty/identity. (See 1.x.)


While I would have been less baffled if you'd given a 3-GCD sample initially than your 5-GCD one above, 7.5 seconds remains... very slow.


Then you are designing only for and around what is already admittedly poorly utilized. Such would as easily warrant the removal of half our healing spells, since we so rarely actually need them anyways.


They're spaced 2 min apart so that you can, shockingly, time your raid defensive CDs accordingly. It has nothing to do with giving you two minutes to prepare an effect.


It does matter. Apparent responsiveness... matters. Not feeling like sloggy dog feces... matters.

No matter how much time is technically given in such and such content as the only time one "really" needs X, Y, or Z, does not give license to attach concrete boots to X, Y, or Z. If any of those tools are added, they should feel decent to use, period.


You're really stretching this comparison well beyond its intent. I am not saying that your idea would turn WHM into a Ninja-but-as-a-healer. Nor am I saying that the only difference between it and Ninja is that your version would be painfully slow (though such would be historically iconic in the sense of a job introduced after WHM simply having WHM's tools but without the attached BS or constriction to barebone design). It's a simple example of a combinatorial system that clearly does not require 7.5 to 12.5 seconds of prep-work and will certainly be a point of comparison against your (5 to 8.3x as much time required to set up) system if yours were introduced. Will that be an entirely fair comparison? No. But it will be the obvious one, and you'd need to deal with that accordingly.

Saying that 7.5 gcds is unresponsive is like claiming that AST's star is unresponsive because it needs 10 seconds for a bigger heal. But the fact is, that if it has been timed and placed correctly it is one of the most rewarding ogcd to use. At one point ppl just need to l2p. Relativity casts have 10 secs cast time aside from being 2 min apart, exactly to prepare your gcds and ogcds. It has everything to do with preparing for the big blast with mitigation and shields aka effects. And there is just no point addressing everything else, we are going in circles. You didn't even grasp it correctly, because you would know that the whole thing is actually 6 gcds - 5 lilies and 1 misery, you just want to reject the idea. Anyway, arguing pointlessly won't change anything about whm. Let's see what end walker brings.

[Shurrikhan]

Saying that 7.5 gcds is unresponsive is like claiming that AST's star is unresponsive because it needs 10 seconds for a bigger heal.

Earthen Star begins recharging the moment it's placed and is an oGCD. Yours has no inherent advantage to being preemptively cast and requires as much dedicated universal uptime as Earthen Star requires delay on its secondary click alone. You're comparing fruit to pulp here and pretending the prior makes the latter a satisfying meal.

At one point ppl just need to l2p.

Higher skill ceilings do not necessitate convolution or intentionally burdened tools. To design one off such is absolutely backwards.

You didn't even grasp it correctly, because you would know that the whole thing is actually 6 gcds - 5 lilies and 1 misery

If the final GCD in a sequence is instant, it does not add to the time to prepare its effect. If it took 3 Glares to supercharge a Dia or whatnot, it'd take 7.6-8.1 (maybe even 8.3 or so, if an extreme case) seconds to release that effect, depending on the baked-in ("projectile") delay, and 10 seconds of uptime, yes, but only 7.5 to supercharge the Dia.

Relativity casts have 10 secs cast time aside from being 2 min apart, exactly to prepare your gcds and ogcds.

...Which is it then? Because only if it were 3 GCDs + Misery, would there be enough time to actually do that.

Anyway, arguing pointlessly won't change anything about whm.

A discussion in which one has missed the point is not in itself pointless. Threads like this attempt to stake out value sets, criteria, weights, as to what might work and what would not, based on considering both past iterations, like iterations elsewhere, and hypotheticals. The point I've tried to make clear for you is that a single tack-on system by which to unlock general effects to which competitors-in-role have more direct access or, in practice, overhealing, are not a sufficient basis of job identity. Such is of course subjective, but it seems far from a minority opinion in this regard. One need only look through this or any of various other healer threads at the moment to see very similar points made more often than the sum total of their alternatives.

Let's see what end walker brings.

And upon 6.0: "Too late to complain now. Let's just see what 7.0 brings"? No, some things are better hammered out as best they can be before inertia leaves us mute and stagnant yet again.

Edit:
For what it's worth, I'm sorry if all this has come off as caning your horse to death. That is not my intent. I'm simply tired of so many jobs having their actual foundational identities gutted just to be given later effects that are somehow both watered down and all the more convoluted. And I'm very much opposed to simply throwing in the towel, or encouraging all others to do so, and just hope for the best from what is historically likely to be just another expansion of similarly subpar WHM gameplay.