Where is your personal sacrifice threshold?

**Semirhage** · 05-13-2021 07:28 AM

Here's the scenario: You've rolled into a roulette. You don't know any of these people. This isn't some serious power-gamer environment where every living body counts. Where do you personally draw the line in your health-keeping duties? At what point does "I've failed as a healer" turn into "you deserved that, dude"?

For me personally it's a combination of two main factors. Vulnerability stacks is loosely one of them. I'd say 1-2 stacks is generally something I'd heal through. I start getting annoyed at 3, and 4 or more if they get slammed by something I'm less likely to consider the death my fault. The other more important factor is where it looks like those stacks are coming from. If it seems like the person is derping out or doesn't know mechanics, that's one thing. If they're clearly just standing in something repeatedly because they expect me to keep them up no matter what they do, that's where I get vindictive. At that point it goes beyond whether I consider it my job to keep them alive or not; if someone clearly expects to forego the bare minimum of effort in order to force me to carry the job of paying attention to this dungeon/trial/whatever, then I'll toss a pity heal out on occasion, but I'm not going to shed any tears if my next heal is a Raise.

Pull up a chair everyone. Let's bring out these selfless martyrs who'll heal through the dreaded 8-stack vulnerability in a guildhest. The wicked witch healers who cruelly kill their parties for fun. When do you let 'em die?

**Recon1o6** · 05-13-2021 08:01 AM

Oh I'm going to love this thread

My method is this. Everyone starts at 2 revives. Depending on your actions, you can gain or lose them

You gain a revive if any of the following apply:
-you're new to the fight and it was the first or second time you saw the mechanic
-you're lagging noticably and doing your best
-you're at least trying to do the mechanic and/or you asked for help with a mechanic that you died to
-you sacrificed yourself to save someone (eg ate a second stack on thundergod's crush accessory that would have killed the healer)
-you are a rez mage or healer or summoner thats is likely to try and help save the raid
-you were literally unable to avoid dying when it wasn't your fault
-you got murdered by another party member and you haven't received a penalty
-a revive put you into an instant death BS (eg red girl's blocks)

You lose one if any of the following happens
-getting vuln stacks from the same mechanic repeatedly after the 3rd time (you get a chance to start doing it properly)
-refusing to listen to mechanics advice or follow the strategy the rest of the party is using (one chance to cooperate)
-deliberately killing other party members in certain circumstances
-deliberately not rolling for loot in alliance raids
-not bothering to play your job to a basic degree (I don't parse, but I don't need one to see a cryo mage or a tank that doesn't bother with mitigation)

You lose any right to be revived by me on the following
-demanding i stand there and only heal
-standing in aoes not bothering to dodge
-complaining about parses
-deliberately killing a party member in certain circumstances

edit: this applies when I'm a rdm and blu healer too. I haven't played healer since 5.2 but it applied then and it will apply to the healers in endwalker should SE actually make them fun to play again

**MicahZerrshia** · 05-13-2021 08:13 AM

In Tower today we had a smn that went afk during the second boss. Just left, didn't say a word and was gone for about 3/4 of the fight. I rescued them out of one move that would have done them in, but then I just stopped healing them through stuff and let them die, didn't even waste the mp for a raise. When they came back they didn't even acknowledge that they had stepped away. Not only did that drop them to the bottom of my priority list for the rest of the run, they also lost out on any possible card buffs I could have gave them. Even when they were on the top, the guy just under them got the buff and they instantly went on my blist after. This is also the #1 reason I initiate a vote kick.

If you are going afk, idc if its in a 24 man run, at least say something. "Sorry gotta let my dogs in" or "My kid is screaming brb", and its cool, we all have things we need to attend to. But never be so rude as just leaving your kb without a word and if you do for an emergency at least apologize and acknowledge you stepped away when you come back. The lack of common mmo or even social etiquette is one of the top things that drives me nuts about newer mmo players.

**Iscah** · 05-13-2021 08:19 AM

I think the only person I ever wilfully let die and didn't raise was the level 50 archer in Halatali who kept running ahead and bringing back more enemies to the newbie tank. They couldn't do it if they were dead, and in any case i was too busy healing the tank through the situation they'd made.

Beyond that, if people are getting lots of vulnerability stacks then there's a point where it's easier to let them die and get them back up again, but that's more "by feel" and not based on a rule.

**Arrhin** · 05-13-2021 08:32 AM

Anyone who won't take polite criticism, or ppl blatantly and repeatedly ignoring mechanics gets ded....Also any personal attacks against other players, there's sass, then there's bein an @ss...

**Foxkid** · 05-13-2021 02:45 PM

I'll stop actively trying to keep people alive if:

- They have an attitude because of something minor and irrelevant said/asked of them
- They try to control how I play my role when they keep eating hits like a novice
- They just try to make things difficult for me by working against the team as a whole

I made 3 versions of raise macros that begin showing my frustration and discontent with people the more they wear on my nerves before it's more beneficial to just leave them on the ground: Silent, Encourage, "....stop dying". Stop Dying varies depending on the role I'm using at that time (college scholar, casual conjurer, and snarky astro), but they all hit about the same in conveying just how close I am to giving up on that person. The exception is if I'm new to the fight or the other person is new to the fight/mechanic, then I'll have more patience for them due to understanding.

If it's a tank giving me a hard time and we have a red mage w/ Vercure or summoner in the group, I will actively lessen my importance of healing them from "stay above 80%" to "you get 0-40% depending on content". Yeah the tank will start to hate me, but what do I care at that point when they want to be difficult while I do the bare minimum I'm even allotted for with healing in general content in this game?

**Almagnus1** · 05-13-2021 05:22 PM

They should feel honored I even gave them a heal, for each time I have to heal them distracts me from the Glaring chain casts that must be maintained.

Y'all wanted green DPS - so y'all can use pots to heal your own stupid selves and learn to dodge.

**Rein_eon_Osborne** · 05-13-2021 08:51 PM

I'm gonna love this thread; you have my gratitude for starting this.

So... I tend to visualize my party of having 2nd enmity bar that is pretty much translated as "How much you've pleased or p!$$ed me off."-meter. Depending on role, duty, or even specific encounter, some behavior will generate or cancels out more or less enmity. The lower said enmity is, the better I will take care of their well-being. I should also note that these only applies purely to DFs groups.

They lower the enmity if:

Make an actual greeting at beginning instead of just 'o/' or worse, silence (-1)
Chats during downtime or in-between pulls in friendly manner (-5)
Respect the mechanics of a dungeon (-2)
Greeding successfully (-3)
A first-timer/sprout/returner telling the party that they're new so I know what to expect (-1)
DPSes who can keep their spot in party enmity list higher than mine 90% of time (-4)
Trying the best of their capabilities, a.k.a. putting their best effort for the good of group (-10)
The first to ask for tips/advices in the party when something goes wrong in an encounter (-5)
Deliberately sacrifices themselves in order to save the party from irreversible turn of event (-8)

They raise the enmity if:

Some attitude problem (+1)
Adding excessive chatbox flooding macro to certain actions, mostly LBs or raises (+1)
Running away from the group, taking the stack/line-up marker with them to die alone twice or more when it is not needed (+1)
Chatting unnecessarily DURING pulls & an encounter (+2)
Narnians (+2)
Semi AFK and does not tell the party why they're not actively engaged in the duty (+5)
Constantly sitting lower than myself in party enmity list past 1 minute engaging into battle (+3) and if I'm on AST: (+5)
Constantly eating vuln stacks/damage in the name of DPS uptime but rarely went higher in enmity list than myself (+5) and if I'm on AST: (+8)
Cure I/Physick/Benefic I trigger happy co-healers (+10)
Cohealer or partymate that tells me to heal more but left me with nothing to heal with their constant MP burning heals (+10)
Placing certain marker in a way that makes the rest of the group's lives harder (+3) i.e. that SAM who doesn't want to move away from the boss with their large AoE marker in alliance raids.
Playing the silent card after a disastrous encounter (+3)
Initiating boss pull countdown when there are clearly players who's still in cutscene (+5)
Ignoring boss pull countdown and pull right away (+4)

I had this list back when I was still spamming DRn to clear all of my relic upgrades... but they're pretty much applicable to most any other duties in the game. The longer I spend time in that duty, the more I fantasize how to drown people in a cup of apple juice and make it look like an accident.

**Liam_Harper** · 05-13-2021 09:53 PM

Honestly, if anyone died and I had the ability within my toolkit to save them, even if they stood in things or had 10 vuln stacks, as long as it wasn't a one-shot or death within a GCD I would feel I could have done better as a healer. I'll do my best to keep everyone alive, mistakes happen and in any case I prefer to learn to be the type of player who can utilize their toolkit to full potential.

That doesn't mean I'd consider I "failed" if I'm a split second late with a Bene or misjudged health on particularly high raid damage that I could have saved by blowing everything I had. That happens. Nor does it mean I can't see the other players may be at fault too for getting hit by avoidables or recognize when it was a particularly hard part to heal that anyone could slip on. But I'll try and learn from it and consider what I could have done better.

The only exception is particularly rude or abusive players, or 0 dps healbots pulling the "guess I'm solo healing" card. They can keep the floor warm

**Aluja89** · 05-13-2021 10:38 PM

When they do less damage than me is when I start not caring about them and usually start a vote kick.

Just the other day I got into that lv70+ mine dungeon, the one with the angelic boss. I got a premade which I didn't realize at first, this ninja was so underperforming you'd think he was afk so I started a vote and drama ensues(which I avoided by leaving because F that) but before I left the tank started to complain why I would even dare to kick someone while the other two moaned ”hunny we don't have all our skills yet" or something along those lines and I'm thinking to myself...

B***H, your tank runs around like a headless chicken using single CDs at a time and I'm constantly healing him because of it and somehow, SOMEHOW I still do more damage than them both.

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Where is your personal sacrifice threshold?