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  1. #21
    Player
    Semirhage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,704
    Character
    Nemene Damendar
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Liam_Harper View Post
    WHM doesn't even need to have ridiculous dps compared to the other two, but what gets to me most is how WHM is the least capable of healing while doing dps. As a WHM you don't get both, you pick one or the other. SCH suffers heal tax too, but can output a fairly decent hps without suffering too much loss. AST pays no heal tax at all. WHM however kills its heal output just to barely keep up with the other two on dps. Assize is blown on cd for damage, lilies are for movement or intermissions, your oGCD's rely on very limited weave windows and GCD heals are a 300 loss.

    If WHM is going to be the 0 utility healer, it should be churning out both competitive dps and healing. AST does both easily and has utility. Currently WHM functions because AST carries it and SCH isn't everyone's cup of tea, but once we divide into shield/pure and WHM is competing directly with AST for one of two "Pure" spots, it's in trouble unless things really change. Why bring a healer that does one of two things and can't do the third when you have a healer that does all 3 simultaneously.
    I completely agree. One of the myriad reasons WHM has traditionally fallen so far behind after an expansion gets past its first major patch or two (obscene overbuffs to the competition aside) is that its personal damage is so rough to upkeep compared to the other two. If we're aiming at a landscape like the caster DPS, where you have the utility-heavy casters doing less personal damage than BLM but bringing raid buffs to (mostly) make up for it, it's harder to get working just because of the way that AST and SCH's healing/damage kits aren't mutually exclusive. It doesn't matter if SCH does *slightly* less personal damage than WHM against a training dummy, because SCH is just head and shoulders more capable of keeping the blasting rolling while making sure the the party stays alive. Add utility on top of that, and the healer that has to eat into their healing commitment time to do damage stands no chance of keeping up with the wonder twins.
    (4)

  2. #22
    Player
    Rilifane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,580
    Character
    Esther Harper
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
    I completely agree. One of the myriad reasons WHM has traditionally fallen so far behind after an expansion gets past its first major patch or two (obscene overbuffs to the competition aside) is that its personal damage is so rough to upkeep compared to the other two. If we're aiming at a landscape like the caster DPS, where you have the utility-heavy casters doing less personal damage than BLM but bringing raid buffs to (mostly) make up for it, it's harder to get working just because of the way that AST and SCH's healing/damage kits aren't mutually exclusive. It doesn't matter if SCH does *slightly* less personal damage than WHM against a training dummy, because SCH is just head and shoulders more capable of keeping the blasting rolling while making sure the the party stays alive. Add utility on top of that, and the healer that has to eat into their healing commitment time to do damage stands no chance of keeping up with the wonder twins.
    It was really sad to watch how quickly WHM got outperformed once again by SCH.
    The first tier, AST/ WHM was great and SCH was the red-headed stepchild. After that it only went downhill. The only boss where even AST/ WHM comps playing at average level pulled ahead was e6s because of the extremely low healing requirement coupled with frequent transitions for lily dumps and the low movement requirement.
    But the healing potential SCH has is completely bonkers; they have so many tools to deal with all kinds of situations that they will not suffer a signifcant dps loss unless a party is really, really bad. WHM suffers in anything but perfectly coordinated parties even with an AST as co heal.
    And with lilies having to be used for weaving, movement and healing, competing for 3 different functions and all with different timings, while being on a 30s cooldown, what good a are a few hundrep dps more on paper? The moment a WHM cannot freely use lilies as movement and weaving tools and having to hold them back for healing, they fall behind big time. Then they get to chose between being Ser Clip-a-lot and Ser Medica Spammer or (more likely) a lot of both.
    Even in coordinated parties I felt like I was griefing my co heal no matter how well I tried to time my movement lilies with healing.

    Right now it's not a choice between "take a team of two healers with high healing potential for safety" and "take a team with less healing potential but good dps if you feel brave". You get both by ditching WHM. It could very well be the high risk/ high reward healer but that probably goes against SE goal of making it the beginner-friendly healer. Even risks that only become apparent in endgame content are probably not acceptable in SEs book.

    A few things I'd like to see for SCH are:
    - an option to turn Succor/ Adlo into a full shield, similiar to ET and on a low CD aswell
    - make the next 3 AF skills crit after Dissipation, maybe let the heal bonus affect oGCDs aswell, because right now the skill is pretty lackluster, boring and mostly an optimization tool
    - Aetherpact and Fey Blessing can still be used when Seraph is summoned, because it's supposed to be an overall stronger version of the fairy, not a limited one
    - fairy always remembers the position it got placed. Seriously, the frequent repositioning is annoying and costs valuable time until you can use the fairy skills effectively again
    - fix ghosting. Enough said.

    But for the fairy itself I pretty much lost all hope unless they reverse the change made to fairy skills. But not having them as oGCDs would make SCHs free heal explode and would require signifcant rebalancing, escpecially for WHM. Pretty sure that's not going to happen.
    (2)
    Last edited by Rilifane; 06-26-2021 at 08:35 AM.

  3. #23
    Player
    Dearche's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    116
    Character
    Dearche Claudia
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Dissipation just plain needs to disappear. The only use I ever saw with it was to let you spam more drains. All the actually good heals SCH got has CDs long enough that dissipation wasn't useful.

    I'm sure that SE's intent was to have a 30s mega heal phase since it gave your GCD heals a buff, but the damn thing is way overkill. At most, you only need about two GCDs to heal the entire party to about two thirds from 1HP, and the SCH just plain loses steam at that point due to the CDs. And that presumes that SCH is solo healing, which runs counter to both encounter and job design.

    Nobody at SE thinks shield healers should be able to solo heal True Living Dead on its own even on casual, yet SCH can get pretty close. Why should SCH get a skill that pushes their healing even further up then? And for 30s? What a waste. You can only justify it at ten seconds, but then you're sitting on so much extra aetherflow that all you can do is either throw it into lustrate so that you can make sure that you never have to do any GCD heals during a fight, or you pump it all into Energy Drain, something SE doesn't even want SCH to do, looking at how they removed it once and nerfed it hard recently.

    Personally, making Indom or Excog the capstone skill is good enough if that's the real reason why Dissipation still exists. At least it's a skill we use on a regular basis, and they really boosts SCH's healing capacity, even if it runs counter to the very definition of a shield healer.
    (1)

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