Mentor Roulette should have longer lockout time

[Krotoan]

I'm curious what people think we have a mentor roulette for?

Like for really and truly.

For what reason do you (people who run mentor roulettes, not DF EX's) think they are for?

[xxmiamorecadenza]

I'm curious what people think we have a mentor roulette for?

Like for really and truly.

For what reason do you (people who run mentor roulettes, not DF EX's) think they are for?

I did it for my Astrope mount. I’m not going to lie and come up with a noble reason. Immediately afterwards
I took off the crown and rode into the sunset on my two seater.

[Krotoan]

I did it for my Astrope mount. I’m not going to lie and come up with a noble reason.

That's perfectly fine and thank you for being honest. I want to reiterate I'm not trying for a "Gotcha" here. I personally don't run it even though I am a mentor because I'm not willing to fulfill what I personally believe the commitment is.

I'm just curious why people think it exists. Why would we have this totally random queue potentially for difficult content with an extra reward attached to it?

[Rongway]

I'm curious what people think we have a mentor roulette for?

Like for really and truly.

For what reason do you (people who run mentor roulettes, not DF EX's) think they are for?

DR:Mentor is the "Game, put me where you need me," button. It's an "I don't need anything specific myself, so let's see what other people are running," button. It's even a button I'm willing to press ten or more times a day for no reward, as the achievement tracker stopped counting my runs years ago.

But it's not an "I'm willing to commit myself to 45 minutes of Praetorium cutscenes" button (there is DR:MainScenario for that) and it's not an "I'm willing to explain the mechanics for an entire extreme trial from the point of view of each of the four roles so that people who don't know how to extreme can complete a trial within the hour" button. It's ludicrous to think anyone should be compelled to stay for either of those things, nor should they be held hostage for the fifteen minute lock on Vote Abandon. If they want to leave and eat the 30 minute general duty penalty, let them.

[Krotoan]

DR:Mentor is the "Game, put me where you need me," button. It's an "I don't need anything specific myself, so let's see what other people are running," button. It's even a button I'm willing to press ten or more times a day for no reward, as the achievement tracker stopped counting my runs years ago.



But it's not an "I'm willing to commit myself to 45 minutes of Praetorium cutscenes" button (there is DR:MainScenario for that) and it's not an "I'm willing to explain the mechanics for an entire extreme trial from the point of view of each of the four roles so that people who don't know how to extreme can complete a trial within the hour" button. It's ludicrous to think anyone should be compelled to stay for either of those things, nor should they be held hostage for the fifteen minute lock on Vote Abandon. If they want to leave and eat the 30 minute general duty penalty, let them.

Helping primarily newer players with queues/directions for beginning/storyline content. Not rehashed optional fights that are obviously meant more for veteran players anyway.

So why would they put those into the queue if they didn't want you to possibly be matched with inexperienced players or run "extended" instances?

Again, I'm not asking what you use it for, I'm asking why people think it actually was implemented the way it is.

[Rongway]

So why would they put those into the queue if they didn't want you to possibly be matched with inexperienced players or run "extended" instances?

Again, I'm not asking what you use it for, I'm asking why people think it actually was implemented the way it is.

My answer stands.

Castrum and Praetorium should not be in DR:Mentor, as there are plenty of people running those through DR:MainScenario for rewards that DR:Mentor doesn't even come close to providing. In this regard, the implementation is clearly wrong.

As for extreme trials, the only arguable justification for putting extreme trials in DR:Mentor is so the new people can be told what an extreme trial is so that they stop queuing unprepared. It's still not a mentor's responsibility to know the entire fight choreography from four role perspectives so that they can fix people's mistakes, nevermind that there's always one or two people who refuse to listen to any feedback anyway.

[Krotoan]

My answer stands.

Castrum and Praetorium should not be in DR:Mentor, as there are plenty of people running those through DR:MainScenario for rewards that DR:Mentor doesn't even come close to providing. In this regard, the implementation is clearly wrong.

As for extreme trials, the only arguable justification for putting extreme trials in DR:Mentor is so the new people can be told what an extreme trial is so that they stop queuing unprepared. It's still not a mentor's responsibility to know the entire fight choreography from four role perspectives so that they can fix people's mistakes.

Your answer then being you have an idea of why they did that but you think it was a bad idea.
Again, I'd like to say that I'm not asking what you think it should be, or what you use it for or implying that you're WRONG (morally) for doing it the way you are. I'm well aware of those answers already.

I'm asking this question because the arguments here seem to be from the point of view that the mentor queue is a reward for mentors. Something they can use to get extra rewards (or a mount).
I think many people mistake the roulettes as some sort of resource for rewards that should be optimizable and without undue "cost" when I'm reasonably sure they are a system that rewards taking responsibility upon ones self to tolerate and assist instanced content one would otherwise not do, assisting lowbies and other players working through old content. "Expert" being the one exception since it seems to be a resource for people with little time to invest to pocket extra tomes per run and not have to PF the current endgame dungeon multiple times everyday.

Having a "punishment" that discourages cherrypicking reinforces that idea.

Now whether those punishments work or not is another argument entirely.



So is someone asking for reinforcement of the actual purpose of the mentor roulette all that outrageous?


Honestly I think people abuse the crap out of the whole mentor system and it should be abolished for something with little to no "rewards" so that actual people who want to help can connect with people who need it.

Change the roulette so that clearing an EX trial dings 50 points towards achievement rewards for the roulette, and running out the clock gives 25 points + also gives the daily bonus and maybe you'll see mentors staying if they known their time is being compensated regardless of the outcome.

An interesting idea and worth separating into it's own thread for a modification to mentor avenues.. but I don't know if the game actually supports reward upon time expiration.

[Rongway]

I'm asking this question because the arguments here seem to be from the point of view that the mentor queue is a reward for mentors. Something they can use to get extra rewards (or a mount).

No. I already said:

It's even a button I'm willing to press ten or more times a day for no reward, as the achievement tracker stopped counting my runs years ago.

None of my arguments are from a reward perspective. I did also say:

Castrum and Praetorium should not be in DR:Mentor, as there are plenty of people running those through DR:MainScenario for rewards that DR:Mentor doesn't even come close to providing. In this regard, the implementation is clearly wrong.

but the rewards are immaterial to the argument. There is an entire roulette just for Castrum and Praetorium that there is no shortage of people running purposefully. It's an utter waste of time to have a mentor sit through cutscenes that other people are volunteering to sit through when the mentor could be doing anything else that actually benefits from their participation.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

So why would they put those into the queue if they didn't want you to possibly be matched with inexperienced players or run "extended" instances?

Again, I'm not asking what you use it for, I'm asking why people think it actually was implemented the way it is.

Actual answer: because the devs design this stuff with the JP community mindset in mind where people only sign up for harder DF content when they're actually ready to clear and use PF to get experience on the content, because they're much more team based and don't want to burden 7 randoms with them not knowing things.

Contrast NA where its the opposite. Due to the fact they're randoms, people often have little desire to stay in things they perceive will be a waste of time, or sign up for things and join parties they clearly aren't ready for in the hopes of being carried. It's seen time & again in systems they develop that work well in the JP community but fall completely apart in the NA community (the CLL pre-buffs fiasco in Southern Front was but the most recent of a long string of hilarious community disparities).

And that's the simple reality of mentor roulette. before I stopped queueing, I went 0-20 for the ARR & HW trials I got in it and wasted close to 20 hours of my life for zero gain. Compared to literally any other content in the roulette (guildhests, dungeons, non-ex trials), EX trials have an insanely high rate of failure, and require 5000% more effort for the same reward than if I just got 'Under the Armor' which takes literally a minute to finish. Change the roulette so that clearing an EX trial dings 50 points towards achievement rewards for the roulette, and running out the clock gives 25 points + also gives the daily bonus and maybe you'll see mentors staying if they known their time is being compensated regardless of the outcome.

[Seiryuukishi]

So why would they put those into the queue if they didn't want you to possibly be matched with inexperienced players or run "extended" instances?

Again, I'm not asking what you use it for, I'm asking why people think it actually was implemented the way it is.

Because they needed a reason to lock another two-seater mount behind semi-difficult content. That's why it's the way it is and you'll never convince me otherwise.