Constructive: Why your MMO sucks...and why that's okay

[LanzTyanu]

Everyone I've talked to who plays FFXIV has only ever told me positive things, so they're generally pretty good at that. I think its more accurate to say that people are willing to say negative things about all the other MMOs that they don't play.

[Starshower]

I don't get that. I think FFXIV is great. The devs are great too. And if FFXIV players mostly say good things about the game instead of bad, maybe it's because the game is actually good with few negatives? No, not all MMOs suck, maybe Josh just hasn't played FFXIV.

[Axxion]

I don't get that. I think FFXIV is great. The devs are great too. And if FFXIV players mostly say good things about the game instead of bad, maybe it's because the game is actually good with few negatives? No, not all MMOs suck, maybe Josh just hasn't played FFXIV.

no he does play ff. Like you said FF have negatives about it. An example is no midcore content. I do know there is more, but that the one that sticks about more

[Raelsar]

I did see that video, and it does bring up a lot of good points... but at the same time, it overlooks a basic approach that usually avoid a lot of the pitfalls whenever a prospective player asks the question of "Which game should I play?"

Ask the prospective player what they are interested in.

Of course, this is assuming that the player in question is willing to cooperate with the line of questioning and participate in the discussion. The more detail you can get from their expectations, the more reasoned a response you can give. There's usually a few biases and assumptions that sneak their way through to the response, but getting additional information from the interested party at least gives you some guidelines to follow; you won't be entirely relying upon those biases and assumptions.

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To use a fairly basic example, you have player asking if they should play FFXIV.
What do you tell them to try and convince them to give the game a shot?

You could go on about how the game has a great story, a free trial, and some visually impressive battles in the endgame... but at the same time, you have no idea if that's what the player is interested in.

So how do get more information?
Ask the person what other games they've played and enjoyed before.

It's a simple detail, but knowing which games those are gives you something to frame your talking points around (provided you know about the games yourself); you can readily make comparisons, both positive and negative. You can establish if it's similar or different, and whether or not the game hits the same notes.

Sometimes you need more information, perhaps due to the response either being limited or the example game being given is known to be rather divisive. An easy example of the latter would be WoW, which has undergone massive structural changes over the years and is currently in the middle of a huge content drought (though that'll be over in a week or so). You need to find out whether or not they're looking for something different than what WoW has become... or if they're simply bored and want an equivalent to WoW to tide them over. So have to follow up with question about specifics about the game (what they like and what they dislike), or perhaps asking about other examples outside the MMORPG genre (for example, opinions of past FF titles and the Diablo games) to see if you can find a trend or other commonality.

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All in all, you're looking to solve a problem.

The issue is that most of the time you're only being given the superficial symptoms, it's not enough to find out what the root cause is. So you keep asking questions until you feel that you've found that root cause, at which point you can give a more constructive answer.

[Sotaris]

I don't get that. I think FFXIV is great. The devs are great too. And if FFXIV players mostly say good things about the game instead of bad, maybe it's because the game is actually good with few negatives? No, not all MMOs suck, maybe Josh just hasn't played FFXIV.

I disagree, the game isn't great but it's not bad. It's good on some things and bad on others.
If you only hear good things about the game, I think it more of a reason to take a step back and look for some reviews that brings up the bad cause if it's all good, it most likely a white knight type of person you're talking with.

FF14 is a good game but it has it flaws. It's not a perfect game.
But the flaws is few enough to give me a reason to keep subbing.

[Jojoya]

I don't get that. I think FFXIV is great. The devs are great too. And if FFXIV players mostly say good things about the game instead of bad, maybe it's because the game is actually good with few negatives? No, not all MMOs suck, maybe Josh just hasn't played FFXIV.

A lot of it doesn't even come down to good or bad. It's "I subjectively like/dislike this for fun/entertainment".

It's okay not to like what others like, or to like what others hate. That's something many seem to have a hard time grasping through the hive minds they grow up in.

[Kaliesto]

There is a lot of positive things about FFXIV I love, but there is some things about it I wish both the developers and even the players would take into consideration.

I have kind of accepted it for what it is though, the tech and software they use currently is all they can really do for FFXIV and I don't think it can be improved any further at this point without some major fundamental change that may or may not go very well.

Either SE gives a bigger budget (though I don't think that is actually the main issue) or make a FFXIV-2 to do the things they want to do or just make a new FF-MMO

Besides that I think its the design philosophy they strictly follow (Familiarity, etc), like as much as a lot of people hate doing FATEs but its a unfortunate major fundamental part of the game and will probably see more of that in Endwalker and beyond.

[Starshower]

I disagree, the game isn't great but it's not bad. It's good on some things and bad on others.
If you only hear good things about the game, I think it more of a reason to take a step back and look for some reviews that brings up the bad cause if it's all good, it most likely a white knight type of person you're talking with.

FF14 is a good game but it has it flaws. It's not a perfect game.
But the flaws is few enough to give me a reason to keep subbing.

I don't need to watch a review on the bad sides of the game. I play it every day, and I don't see anything bad. Can you list some stuff that you think is really bad? It probably won't be as bad as the bad stuff people keep saying about wow, for example.


I'm tired of people incessantly saying how ffxiv is somehow bad. I don't care if I look like a white knight, we have many many more people on these forums saying how ffxiv is actually bad than people praising it, at least in those threads talking about wow and other mmos.

[Axxion]

I don't need to watch a review on the bad sides of the game. I play it every day, and I don't see anything bad. Can you list some stuff that you think is really bad? It probably won't be as bad as the bad stuff people keep saying about wow, for example.


I'm tired of people incessantly saying how ffxiv is somehow bad. I don't care if I look like a white knight, we have many many more people on these forums saying how ffxiv is actually bad than people praising it, at least in those threads talking about wow and other mmos.

is this an everybody question or just one?

[SwordswornFox]

I don't need to watch a review on the bad sides of the game. I play it every day, and I don't see anything bad. Can you list some stuff that you think is really bad? It probably won't be as bad as the bad stuff people keep saying about wow, for example.


I'm tired of people incessantly saying how ffxiv is somehow bad. I don't care if I look like a white knight, we have many many more people on these forums saying how ffxiv is actually bad than people praising it, at least in those threads talking about wow and other mmos.

Well since the video isn't a review and is actually a theory as to why that kind of discussion happens when people ask what mmo they should play or if they should pick up a specific MMO, you're okay there.