Why All the One-Button Mechanics?

[Shurrikhan]

Mana Management - Eclipsed in most content and in most cases by hitting on CD a button that typically serves no other purpose.

Knockbacks - Mostly eclipsed by hitting a button that, for all but one role, serves no other purpose.

Positionals - Eclipsed by hitting a button that serves no other purpose.

Etc, etc.

...If the mechanics are worth having, why do we then bloat our bars just to either (A) ensure they're typically non-mechanics or (B) bypass any need for polish to said mechanics?

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Consider it this way:

Is MP a worthwhile mechanic? Is the game better off for having it?

If so, is the game also better off for having devalued all parts of managing one's MP besides hitting a certain button once per minute?

If not, why is the button there?

Similarly, are knockbacks fun to have in the game? Is the game better off for having them?

If so, is the game also better off for most knockbacks being a matter of hitting a certain button, rather than pre-positioning?

If not, why is the button there?

We're increasingly told that previously held and often more meaningful skills, mechanics, etc., need to be pruned due to limited bar space, but at the same time, we're spending bar space specifically on buttons that do nothing but remove mechanics we've already spent time developing or devalue related play that we seem to generally think the game is better having than not having. ...Why?
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:: I am not advocating for the removal of these MP, positionals, displacement, or the like.
:: I am not asking for even more buttons by which to make mechanics into non-mechanics.
:: I am advocating that we not spend valuable button-space on watering those mechanics down and would assert that if those mechanics are worth having at all (and I believe they are), then they're worth polishing and making wholly meaningful.

[Adeacia]

Things being complex for the sake of it is bad design. No reason to have more than one thing to press for these.

It used to be worse in the case of casters. I could get rid of a good deal of the knockback /draw in mechs in a given fight due to how short the surecast cooldown was. The devs fixed that by increasing the cooldown a lot. My guess is that the idea of it is you can basically remove one mech (though it doesn't always work) for a fight but you have to pick which one. If you mess up the mech, you can stop from being thrown off of the platform for example. I know I've done that before, you just can't keep doing that for the entire fight.

[ItMe]

I'm not sure I follow...
Are you suggesting there'd be less of a problem if our (for example) knockback tools were more than one button?

[Canadane]

Honestly, using a gap closer instead of a knockback immune is much more fun.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm not sure I follow...
Are you suggesting there'd be less of a problem if our (for example) knockback tools were more than one button?

Quite the opposite.

I'm asking why we're creating or working around mechanics that will typically only ever amount to hitting the button of appropriate type rather than the more nuanced play of, say, MP management, prepositioning, etc.
Or, put inversely... Why are we devaluing mechanics that are capable of being much more nuanced response cues and which, until Stormblood, were predominantly meant to cause those response cues instead of mere typal button presses?
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Compare Arm's Length (on a non-tank) to any gap-closer, for instance, especially one with a potency-cost if held for a knockback. The latter isn't made just to remove a mechanic. If you banked it correctly, you come out on top. If there were no knockbacks in that period and you delayed it to outside your damage-bonus window despite that, you fall slightly behind. It therefore interacts interestingly with knockbacks, whether by intent or mere incidence. But, it remains a valuable tool even outside the presence of those specific mechanics. It isn't merely a matter of "Incoming Mechanic Type [A]. Hit Button [A] to remove it again from the game, except in the rare event it's more frequent than your cooldown."

[DrWho2010]

i think it just adds more variety to a fight? don't want to deal with a mechanic? anti-knockback.

some part of the fight went melee positional unfriendly? true north.

I know some people that complain sometimes that a fight should just cater to their class because they just want the big deeps. but that kind of thinking if a fight is designed that way would be less interesting imo.

if you want to fight a dummy go fight a dummy any where in the open world or Stone Sea Sky.

[Kabooa]

Honestly, using a gap closer instead of a knockback immune is much more fun.

See, there was a time when I would have said "You get one or the other", primarily because it helps cement a playfeel for the class.

The Dark Knight can be knocked away, but they'll be back on you. The Paladin will never leave. The warrior has neither, but they'll chuck a mother trucking rock at you now that they're out of melee.

Different solutions to the same problem, so to speak.

[Shurrikhan]

i think it just adds more variety to a fight? don't want to deal with a mechanic? anti-knockback.

So, the ability to have no mechanic adds variety... while the mechanic being immunized does what, exactly? What makes having pressing a button up to once per 2 minutes so much more diverse and enjoyable than... prepositioning, for instance?

While there may, in the rare case of very frequent knockbacks, be some added decision-making in determining which knockback to immunize, the ability to not do a given mechanic will necessarily occlude... doing that mechanic, and in many a fight Arm's Length and Surecast are sufficient for every knockback.

if you want to fight a dummy go fight a dummy any where in the open world or Stone Sea Sky.

I've asked for these mechanics to be more polished and meaningful, rather than watered down or otherwise half-assed. At no point have I asked that the average raid fight become even more like striking dummy practice.

[DrWho2010]

So, the ability to have no mechanic adds variety... while the mechanic being immunized does what, exactly? What makes having pressing a button up to once per 2 minutes so much more diverse and enjoyable than... prepositioning, for instance?

Useful as an... oh crap button I suppose. Or maybe you're in the middle of a combo and don't want to be interrupted? any myriad amount of reasons.

While there may, in the rare case of very frequent knockbacks, be some added decision-making in determining which knockback to immunize, the ability to not do a given mechanic will necessarily occlude... doing that mechanic, and in many a fight Arm's Length and Surecast are sufficient for every knockback.

say you don't want to lose uptime by having to deal with a knockback. now you can ignore pre-positioning and just keep on wailing on.

I've asked for these mechanics to be more polished and meaningful, rather than watered down or otherwise half-assed. At no point have I asked that the average raid fight become even more like striking dummy practice.

that comment wasn't directed at you more to the general gamer that complains that a fight doesn't cater to their class and want to have to deal with it being inconvenient for them.

I'm all for more polished and meaningful fights but ymmv.

[Shurrikhan]

say you don't want to lose uptime by having to deal with a knockback. now you can ignore pre-positioning and just keep on wailing on.

I'm more than aware of the benefit. I maximize its use, myself. And I do get satisfaction out of doing so. I just doubt it's more than I'd get from using more versatile tools well, if I didn't already have that otherwise useless tool taking up their would-be role.

Let me rephrase:

When you have, say, a knockback mechanic with a minimal interval never less two minutes spread, we're essentially paying bar space just to not engage in a fight's design. That in turn both reduces apparent urgency and theme in that fight and reduces the need for polish or satisfying usability across other, more versatile skills -- say, Aetherial Manipulation, Fists of Wind as actually doing something of note, Jump and the various Dives as a much more timely kb-immunization period over their animation locks, Shields as notable kb-mitigation or -nullification, etc. That seems, to me at least, too large a hole in the long term for the satisfaction of having hit a particular extra-and-otherwise-useless button at the right time to climb out of.

Or, put another way, it just feels like a very half-assed impasse, atm. Either the cooldowns of nullifying abilities should be longer or the mechanics more frequent, such as to at least generate nearly as much gameplay through choosing when to use the nullifier as otherwise seen through all the various other skills or play that would interact with the non-nullified mechanic (Sprint, gap-closers, move-to's, prepositioning, shields, etc.), or the specific nullifier should be removed and other, more versatile, job-specific, and/or granular/nuanced ways of interacting with the mechanic improved upon.