Garlean Playable Race (?)

[Theodric]

In response to the claim that I don't care about the game's lore I'd like to point out that a significant portion of my posts can be attributed to the lore forum...which is pretty much the only other forum around these parts where I lurk other than general discussion. I also frequently discuss the game's lore over Discord with other players.

Lauront has the right of it, though - there's way to make the inclusion of Pureblood Garleans work and even if it did involve some light tweaks here and there it wouldn't be any more jarring to me than some of the other potential supposedly 'outlandish' options such as male Viera.

It's an MMO. It's not going to be set in stone. The story and game is going to be tweaked and adjusted to make it more interesting over time. It's not going to constantly stay stagnant and never, ever have any twists or turns that might change things up.

It wasn't until recently that Tempering was thought to be incurable. Yet the circumstances changed as new lore came to light.

It wasn't until recently that male Viera were thought to never be present outside of their home and yet that is going to be changing as of Endwalker.

Their ability to cast magic or not is not the main issue though, they are the primary antagonists for the base game and one of the expansions. A good chunk of the story would come across as rather silly, at best, unless they changed chunks of it for Garlean characters, that's a rather large negative for a game that features its story as a big selling point.

I disagree. As per the reasoning outlined in this prior post:

A clear distinction is made between Pureblood Garleans who identify as Imperials and those who do not. We've also seen multiple Pureblood Garlean NPC's and conscripts defect and readily work with the Eorzean Alliance with little to no outright discrimination involved. Given that we already see the likes of Cid and Nero frequently save the day for Eorzea from as early as ARR and many more times beyond that point...I have my doubts that it's the red line that some people are painting it as.

The player character is already a special snowflake on many potential fronts. Many circumstances of which are roughly equal to the idea of being a Garlean Pureblood who just so happens to be able to be one of the few capable of wielding aether.

I get that some people are worried that they might be super popular and that there would be many of them throughout the game world as a result but I, personally, don't believe that the player character makeup needs to reflect the rarity of supposed lore restrictions.

We already know that not every Garlean is aligned with Garlemald and that has been the case from as early as ARR. In both the MSQ's and many side quests, the day is saved precisely due to the aid of a Pureblood Garlean.

I don't see how it'd be jarring for that to extend to the player character as well given that he - or she - can already be designed to be one of many different playable races or jobs.

The defector trope is also very common in JRPG's. The cast of FFVI didn't cast out Celes because she was formerly associated with the Empire in that game.

General Beatrix wasn't cast out for formerly being loyal to Queen Brahne in FFIX.

Larsa wasn't cast out for being aligned with the Empire in FFXII - because he was ultimately working to bring about peace.

Though in fairness, I can't expect people to have played every other Final Fantasy game in the series/be familiar with their story elements.

[MikkoAkure]

We already know that not every Garlean is aligned with Garlemald and that has been the case from as early as ARR. In both the MSQ's and many side quests, the day is saved precisely due to the aid of a Pureblood Garlean.

I don't see how it'd be jarring for that to extend to the player character as well given that he - or she - can already be designed to be one of many different playable races or jobs.

The defector trope is also very common in JRPG's. The cast of FFVI didn't cast out Celes because she was formerly associated with the Empire in that game.

General Beatrix wasn't cast out for formerly being loyal to Queen Brahne in FFIX.

Larsa wasn't cast out for being aligned with the Empire in FFXII - because he was ultimately working to bring about peace.

Though in fairness, I can't expect people to have played every other Final Fantasy game in the series/be familiar with their story elements.

We may know there are good Garleans out there, but the NPCs we meet won't and it makes 0 sense in context. I don't think they would add any context either. I highly doubt they'd take the time and care to add any special dialogue in the MSQ based on your race choice that's different than what presently exists. It would be jarring to be playing a Garlean while every NPC ignores your existence and goes on at length about how they brutalized their nations and you meet people who only exist because of violent interactions between pureblood Garleans and the locals. Also jarring would be walking around in the daylight without getting arrested or any character treating you with suspicion at all or Garlean soldiers attacking you on sight despite your 3rd eye. Yes the other new races have had some lore bending or handwaving but nothing to this magnitude.

Also, none of the examples you listed have a permanent physical trait that differentiates them from baseline humans. Garleans are instantly recognizable.

In the end, the biggest difference between male viera and Garleans is that there was a lot of vocal want for viera and a thread that has nearly 2k likes. People aren't clamoring to play Garleans except for you and the 2-3 others posting over and over. I've yet to see a compelling argument for why playable Garleans deserve to exist. At least male viera are making up for the missing gender of an existing race.

[KizuyaKatogami]

We may know there are good Garleans out there, but the NPCs we meet won't and it makes 0 sense in context. I don't think they would add any context either. I highly doubt they'd take the time and care to add any special dialogue in the MSQ based on your race choice that's different than what presently exists. It would be jarring to be playing a Garlean while every NPC ignores your existence and goes on at length about how they brutalized their nations and you meet people who only exist because of violent interactions between pureblood Garleans and the locals. Also jarring would be walking around in the daylight without getting arrested or any character treating you with suspicion at all or Garlean soldiers attacking you on sight despite your 3rd eye. Yes the other new races have had some lore bending or handwaving but nothing to this magnitude.

Also, none of the examples you listed have a permanent physical trait that differentiates them from baseline humans. Garleans are instantly recognizable.

In the end, the biggest difference between male viera and Garleans is that there was a lot of vocal want for viera and a thread that has nearly 2k likes. People aren't clamoring to play Garleans except for you and the 2-3 others posting over and over. I've yet to see a compelling argument for why playable Garleans deserve to exist. At least male viera are making up for the missing gender of an existing race.

You know what else would be jarring? Playing a duskwight elezen in gridania and being able to meet with the seedseer and being able to become a conjurer despite the blatant racism and lack of freedom/equality they have. Yet...it’s still possible. It doesn’t make any sense, but that’s the way it is.Same with Hrothgar in Uldah. A beast-like race not even questioned by the city despite being prejudice against all beast tribes. It's just there with no explanation or questions asked. None of the main cast are ever in vocal opposition of working with a Garlean. Also, in regards to your comment on people aren’t clamoring for them. Wow...i wonder why. It’s almost like every single time someone mentions they would like to play as one or that they enjoy the Garlean story, they're instantly met with criticism and shot down, or called horrible names because of who they like in a fantasy game full of pixels. Again, you seem to be missing the point and it’s just completely flying over your head. Lore isn’t a problem. It really isn’t. Look at Male Viera for that. You can say it’s not the same or whatever you want but it is. When the main dev himself says they only use the lore excuse as a temporary thing, i’m inclined to believe him over random people on the forums who know next to nothing about game lore.I just find it really funny how you guys were arguing lore problems with it, yet after a few others and i refuted those claims, you’ve now resorted to saying simply it’s a matter of want. Where was the demand for Hrothgar before Yoshi p brought it up? Exactly. Crying about immersion when again, we have things like chicken suits, pig suits, baseball caps, sneakers, 1980’s american style glams. Give me a break.

[Theodric]

We may know there are good Garleans out there, but the NPCs we meet won't and it makes 0 sense in context.

We already see many NPC's readily working alongside defectors from Garlemald and the major organisations that our character works with do not discriminate based on race or background. Breaking the cycle of distrust and conflict is...the major plot element of a great many storylines throughout the entirety of the game thus far.

I don't think they would add any context either. I highly doubt they'd take the time and care to add any special dialogue in the MSQ based on your race choice that's different than what presently exists.

They didn't add any special dialogue for other race and gender combinations added to the game at a point later than ARR. Thus they wouldn't need to do as much in the case of a hypothetical Pureblood Garlean option.

It would be jarring to be playing a Garlean while every NPC ignores your existence and goes on at length about how they brutalized their nations and you meet people who only exist because of violent interactions between pureblood Garleans and the locals. Also jarring would be walking around in the daylight without getting arrested or any character treating you with suspicion at all or Garlean soldiers attacking you on sight despite your 3rd eye. Yes the other new races have had some lore bending or handwaving but nothing to this magnitude.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think it'd be jarring at all and I believe it to be a subjective element at play - nor at any point are Pureblood Garleans or Garlean defectors shown to be arrested or hunted down in the streets if they are not aligned with Imperial Garlemald. We also know that the Warrior of Light is effectively a thrill seeker and mercenary for hire on many fronts, often with little ties to whatever nation he or she hails from. It also doesn't take very long for the player character to hold significant sway over multiple world leaders/prominent figures...so I doubt the fact that the player character is a Xaela or a Pureblood Garlean or a Hyur or a Viera is going to matter much to them.

Also, none of the examples you listed have a permanent physical trait that differentiates them from baseline humans. Garleans are instantly recognizable.

Given that the majority of Eorzeans are canonically incapable of reading or writing there's a pretty good chance that they wouldn't know what a Pureblood Garlean even looked like - to say nothing of the fact that a third eye is easily hidden through the use of strategic hair placement, headgear or via a glamour.

In the end, the biggest difference between male viera and Garleans is that there was a lot of vocal want for viera and a thread that has nearly 2k likes. People aren't clamoring to play Garleans except for you and the 2-3 others posting over and over. I've yet to see a compelling argument for why playable Garleans deserve to exist. At least male viera are making up for the missing gender of an existing race.

Putting aside the fact that every request thread needs to start somewhere, I think it is rather disingenuous - perhaps unintentionally so - to imply that there's no demand for Pureblood Garleans as a playable race at the same time as actively shutting down attempts to push for them to be added to the game.

Indeed, one might wonder if the real opposition comes from a fear that the request might actually gather some traction and come to be implemented in-game. We also know that popularity alone doesn't always equal whether something will be added to the game or not.

There's also a lot of fans of Garlemald and role-players who already choose to portray their characters as being Pureblood Garleans. Perhaps a search for 'Garlean' on Twitter alongside the FFXIV tag would be a good start to get a quick and easy glimpse at that. I know a lot of them don't bother posting on the official forums, though - because they tend to tire of the usual song and dance that usually arises where they're told they're wrong to like or support the 'bad guys' even though the game's writers have confirmed multiple times in interviews that the game world isn't intended to be taken in the context of 'good' and 'evil' but merely a nuanced, complex matter of perspective. I imagine that reflects in the views of the general populace, too - and if you'd like, I'm happy to find and link those interviews here.

Come to think of it, a playable Pureblood Garlean would be very much in line with that premise. A lot of people also enjoy playing a character with a lot to prove or with the odds stacked against them, too. I could see it drawing a lot of new players to the game - I always felt like there were a lot of story similarities between Pureblood Garleans and the Blood Elves of WoW for example and I believe there's been quite the influx of WoW players checking out FFXIV lately.

For what it's worth, I could understand the story not making sense if people were asking for playable Pureblood Garleans who are still fighting under the banner of Imperial Garlemald and proclaiming their superiority over the rest of Eorzea but that isn't what is being asked for here.

Ultimately, though, the prudent course would be to agree to disagree I believe.

[Iscah]

I could see Garleans being added after next expansion where they may become a more neutral presence for us. Older stories might be weird playing as a Garlean but you'd have to figure maybe your adventurer has something going on that prevents them from being loyal to the empire. IDK.

This can easily be addressed. Have either Hydaelin/Zodiark explode at the end of 6.0 showering the world in aether and omg you guys Garleans can use magic now wow

Whatever happens, the race can't just become playable based on an event halfway through the story. It has to be in place from the beginning because one a race is added it can be picked from the beginning.

You know what else would be jarring? Playing a duskwight elezen in gridania and being able to meet with the seedseer and being able to become a conjurer despite the blatant racism and lack of freedom/equality they have. Yet...it’s still possible. It doesn’t make any sense, but that’s the way it is.Same with Hrothgar in Uldah. A beast-like race not even questioned by the city despite being prejudice against all beast tribes. It's just there with no explanation or questions asked.

There's nothing stopping a Duskwight from doing those things; it's just that people don't tend to like them much while they're doing it. (Though Kan-E seems like the "judge on individual merit" sort anyway.) The lancer questline revolves around a Duskwight who used to be a member of the Wood Wailers and we've seen at least one current Duskwight member of the Twin Adders.

And Hrothgar... well, I think they're lore-breaking but in any case the official excuse is that they're (somehow) universally considered beastlike men rather than beastmen. One way or the other, they have existed from the start of the game as a neutral/friendly race.

[Enkidoh]

There's nothing stopping a Duskwight from doing those things; it's just that people don't tend to like them much while they're doing it. (Though Kan-E seems like the "judge on individual merit" sort anyway.) The lancer questline revolves around a Duskwight who used to be a member of the Wood Wailers and we've seen at least one current Duskwight member of the Twin Adders.

^This. Also, the main reason why Duskwight are ostracized so much is due to the backstory of Gridania's founding - when the elementals granted the elezen of Gelmorra permission to settle on the surface in the forest, a renegade political faction refused to comply, perferring to stay in the underground caves and abandoned subterranian Gelmorran structures rather than cowtow to the fickle whims of the elementals, and it was this troglodytic group that eventually became the duskwight clan, becoming physically distinct from the main 'wildwood' elezen of Gridania. Duskwights are welcome in Gridania, they just have to be prepared to follow Gridania's laws (namely, the will of the elementals), which, naturally, many refuse to (especially to do with illegal poaching), which then drives them to the fringes of society, becoming bandits and outlaws.

There hence is nothing lore wise stopping a duskwight from becoming an adventurer, unlike a Garlean which would require a far greater stretching of the lore for credibility's sake. It even makes perfect sense that duskwight become adventurers specifically given the clan's rebellious tendencies fitting right in with the free-spirited, mercenary nature of the life of an adventurer. Garleans are just too buttoned-down and staid for such a life, which is pretty telling that Garleans who are rebellious eventually end up defecting to Eorzea anyway.

[Iscah]

Duskwights are welcome in Gridania, they just have to be prepared to follow Gridania's laws (namely, the will of the elementals), which, naturally, many refuse to (especially to do with illegal poaching), which then drives them to the fringes of society, becoming bandits and outlaws.

I don't think it's quite that simple. A lot of people are prejudiced against the entire race because of the actions of a few; they're allowed into the city and maybe accepted into positions of authority by people who respect them, but there are plenty who don't and they're quickly painted as "obviously the villain" whether they've earned it or not.

[MikkoAkure]

You know what else would be jarring? Playing a duskwight elezen in gridania and being able to meet with the seedseer and being able to become a conjurer despite the blatant racism and lack of freedom/equality they have. Yet...it’s still possible. It doesn’t make any sense, but that’s the way it is.

The commander of the Serpents in 1.0 was a duskwight. Also, the world's leading biologist is a duskwight and lives in Gridania and comes in and out of the city just fine. There are a few other duskwight sprinkled through Gridania as well. None of that suggests insurmountable inequality.

[Caurcas]

As a Duskwight enjoyer, Gridania can burn. Backwards city state for a bunch of smelling hippies. On topic, playable Garlean's would be rad, especially if their racial gear is their armors.

[SturmChurro]

If it wasn't for male viera, who knows what could have been possible! Perhaps even playable Garleans - I doubt they'd be limited either. Ah, what could have been.