Garlean Playable Race (?)

[Jandor]

So now the argument goes from “ha you can’t name a single garlean that uses magic,”to now it’s “oh, it’s not a potent magic spell so it hardly counts.” Are y’all serious? I just find it hilarious tbh that people are still arguing the “muh lore” or “muh immersion” when we got Male Viera and Reaper.People constantly said we wouldn’t get male viera because of lore or we wouldn’t get a dark job because wol is a goody two shoes. You’d think after these reveals people would start thinking wow, SE seems to just be giving out what the players ask for, regardless of lore. They’ve bent the lore multiple times before, there’s no reason they wouldn’t be able to do it again. It’s a trivial argument because if enough people asked for it, as seen with male bunnies, we’d get it. That’s how the game works.

My first argument was that it doesn't fit the story, because it doesn't.

That they can't use magic is another hurdle, a hurdle which is not removed by one instance of one Garlean casting one basic spell.

[Bhearil]

Lucia using spells was either an oversight, or her using some magitech device to mimic heal, since her origins as garlean was kept in the dark and making her not using magic would spoil it.

Imagine how worthless garleans spies would be if they didnt have any way to disguiss their complete lack of magic.

[Theodric]

I guess we can agree to disagree on that.

There's a lot of Pureblood Garleans out there. Perhaps some of them acquired the Echo, which is a prerequisite for becoming a Warrior of Light. I don't think it's any more of a stretch for a Pureblood Garlean to set off on an adventure just like a Xaela taking their leave of the Steppe or a Viera departing their forest to do the same thing.

A clear distinction is also made between Imperial Garleans and regular Garleans and the inhabitants of Eorzea do not show immense hostility towards the latter. Indeed, we've seen our character and the Scions work with them many times already. Maxima, Cid and Nero spring to mind but there's other examples as well.

Personally I'd be happy with a third eye glamour, since you can design a pretty neat looking 'Garlean' using either a Midlander or Highlander model already. As many Garlean role-players already do.

I just don't think the lore is set up in such a way as to make it impossible for a Pureblood Garlean to exist as a playable option.

[KizuyaKatogami]

My first argument was that it doesn't fit the story, because it doesn't.

That they can't use magic is another hurdle, a hurdle which is not removed by one instance of one Garlean casting one basic spell.

Except that not only are we given in game proof with Lucia but we also have it in the lore book. Like, idk how much proof you need, but the argument of it not fitting the story is moot when again, you have things available like male viera, duskwights in gridania, male miqote and fem roes getting a complete lore bending after 1.0. Like someone asked for an in game garlean that has used spells and assumed we couldn’t find one, we did. The lore book states it’s possible. Idk how you’re going to argue against something the devs themselves have stated. I feel like a lot of people just have something against the Garleans or something lmao. They won’t speak up when there’s lore bending done in their favor, but if it’s done in favor of something they don’t like THEN it’s a problem. This community sure does love hypocrisy...

[Jandor]

Except that not only are we given in game proof with Lucia but we also have it in the lore book. Like, idk how much proof you need, but the argument of it not fitting the story is moot when again, you have things available like male viera, duskwights in gridania, male miqote and fem roes getting a complete lore bending after 1.0. Like someone asked for an in game garlean that has used spells and assumed we couldn’t find one, we did. The lore book states it’s possible. Idk how you’re going to argue against something the devs themselves have stated. I feel like a lot of people just have something against the Garleans or something lmao. They won’t speak up when there’s lore bending done in their favor, but if it’s done in favor of something they don’t like THEN it’s a problem. This community sure does love hypocrisy...

I have nothing against Garleans, I already stated I find them and their culture and tech quite interesting, and have wanted the ability to learn Garlean jobs for a long time.

In other threads I'd even be arguing that people generally underestimate the Garlean capacity for magic and aether manipulation, and that limited is not the same as zero.
However, a limited capacity doesn't mean it suddenly makes sense for them to be freely darting around an Eorzea that spends most of the game embroiled in a war with Garlemald, spamming holy and flare and teleporting all over the place, with nary an eyebrow raised by anyone at just how exceptional it all is.

-----

Male Viera make a lot more sense, their lifestyle has two crucial factors to it that makes becoming an adventurer very plausible.

1st of all, it sucks, it sucks big time. "Hey there kid, noticed you've got a penis now so time to be banished, enjoy living solo in the woods for the next several centuries." Meh, I'd bin that nonsense off straight away.
The 2nd, said loner guardian of the woods lifestyle might suck, but it does create a very solid foundation for becoming an adventurer.

Viera lore does kinda suck IMHO (sorry FFXII fans,) but the fact it does kinda suck weirdly makes it better. The way they've organized their civilization is pretty stupid and seems incredibly implausible, but the fact I can't see how such a society would last does explain why so many Viera adventurers are appearing, their society is basically collapsing in real time as they're released to players .

[Bhearil]

Except that not only are we given in game proof with Lucia but we also have it in the lore book. Like, idk how much proof you need, but the argument of it not fitting the story is moot when again, you have things available like male viera, duskwights in gridania, male miqote and fem roes getting a complete lore bending after 1.0. Like someone asked for an in game garlean that has used spells and assumed we couldn’t find one, we did. The lore book states it’s possible. Idk how you’re going to argue against something the devs themselves have stated. I feel like a lot of people just have something against the Garleans or something lmao. They won’t speak up when there’s lore bending done in their favor, but if it’s done in favor of something they don’t like THEN it’s a problem. This community sure does love hypocrisy...

Lore books state themselves that they are not completely accurate. They were written like if they werent 100% meta information but collected in universe and so prone to inaccuracies due to a non omniscient writer. More like a compendium of info gathered by different sources, generally correct but also prone to errors

[Theodric]

Lore books state themselves that they are not completely accurate. They were written like if they werent 100% meta information but collected in universe and so prone to inaccuracies due to a non omniscient writer. More like a compendium of info gathered by different sources, generally correct but also prone to errors

Is this not a case of simply moving the goalposts? It was stated with certainty that it was not possible for a Pureblood Garlean to wield aether, though an exception was found - and we've not yet delved into their homeland to see how many exceptions to the rule exist.

Or is every scrap of lore put forward now at the mercy of potentially being inaccurate because it just so happens to be present in the game's lore book?

[MikkoAkure]

Is this not a case of simply moving the goalposts? It was stated with certainty that it was not possible for a Pureblood Garlean to wield aether, though an exception was found - and we've not yet delved into their homeland to see how many exceptions to the rule exist.

Or is every scrap of lore put forward now at the mercy of potentially being inaccurate because it just so happens to be present in the game's lore book?

If Garlean sorcerers were a real thing and had the ability to do more than "aqua vitae", then why does the lore double-down hard on Garleans not being able to cast magic everywhere else in the game? Why have none of the high profile Garleans we've met and battled with cast damaging spells on us? Why do in-game sources mention multiple times about how they use conscripts for their mage forces? And why do they spend so much time, money, and energy in Stormblood to create the resonant if Garleans have been able to cast magic this whole time?

Like I've said before, even disregarding the lore, they're still the enemy through the whole game and yes, there are exceptions, but the whole point of those characters is that they're exceptions. WoL isn't special until they start collecting crystals and they're not treated as special by the city-states until partway through the storyline. Why would a pureblood Garlean be running around without getting arrested? The only other pureblood Garleans who are mixing among the Eorzeans hide their 3rd eye. If we have a playable Garlean hide their 3rd eye too, then what's the point?

That leads into the fact that they're not different at all from what we already have. The only distinct feature of the Garleans is their 3rd eye. Otherwise the purebloods use elezen body models and head but with hyur ears.You can keep mentioning adding bunny ears to midlanders to make viera or how hrothgar are furry roes, but they have actual different faces/body models and distinctly different features. SE took and extremely lazy route for Garleans. A tiny handful of NPCs have their own unique faces, but even they use 100% elezen bodies that are not modified at all. If SE had more going on with them I may be singing a different tune, but that's not the case for now. It's possible existing Garleans might get more love pending a graphics overhaul, and I would welcome it because I've always had a problem with how they're portrayed, but then we get into complete conjecture territory.

[Lauront]

Is this not a case of simply moving the goalposts? It was stated with certainty that it was not possible for a Pureblood Garlean to wield aether, though an exception was found - and we've not yet delved into their homeland to see how many exceptions to the rule exist.

Or is every scrap of lore put forward now at the mercy of potentially being inaccurate because it just so happens to be present in the game's lore book?

It very much is moving the goalposts. Much like it is irrelevant whether or not a Pureblood in-game has been shown to use magic or not. The lorebook makes it clear that this eludes all but a few. So why would that matter?

All that is required is an opening that would allow for some exceptions to use magic - and that exists. It is in the lorebook. Now, being an in-universe perspective, could it be wrong? Yes, but until such time as it is shown to actually be wrong, I fail to see why it cannot serve as an opening to allow for a Pureblood which could wield magic.

It really is no more jarring than how the addition of male Viera fits with the existing lore given by the dramaturge.

I am not expecting that they will add Garlean Purebloods as a race, but I find the lore or "immersion" based reasons to be exceptionally weak, especially given how they've handled prior additions of new races to the game and, again, nothing a glamour can't hide, which is no more jarring than trying to explain why, in spite of being one of those very well hidden male bunnies, no one ever thought to ask you about that. Nevermind Au Ra wandering Ishgard without much fanfare.

With that said, I'd like to see enhanced customisation options allow for the possibility of creating a Pureblood. And much as with my request for them to add male Viera, I am not convinced that the lore will matter as an excuse to prevent it.

Lucia using spells was either an oversight, or her using some magitech device to mimic heal, since her origins as garlean was kept in the dark and making her not using magic would spoil it.

Imagine how worthless garleans spies would be if they didnt have any way to disguiss their complete lack of magic.

It could be an oversight. It could be magitek. Or she could be one of those rarities the lorebook touches upon.

With no real understanding of how their limitation works, beyond it having a genetic cause (according to Aulus), it is left open to the devs to write that as they please. Current lore is certainly no hindrance.

Viera males aren't seen due to their societies rules, it's not like it's physically impossible to see them. The rules can change and/or more Viera can decide to break them.
Also, as much as I do like my Viera, as a race they're not important to the story.

Garleans can't really use magic because of their biology, it's not something that can be waved away with some excuse like "they changed their minds lol."
Garlemald is also, unlike the Viera clans, pretty important and functions as one of the stories two main factions of antagonists.

The lore book says they by and large cannot do that. Not that every single one of them can't.

If Garlean sorcerers were a real thing and had the ability to do more than "aqua vitae", then why does the lore double-down hard on Garleans not being able to cast magic everywhere else in the game? Why have none of the high profile Garleans we've met and battled with cast damaging spells on us? Why do in-game sources mention multiple times about how they use conscripts for their mage forces? And why do they spend so much time, money, and energy in Stormblood to create the resonant if Garleans have been able to cast magic this whole time?

What does it even matter why we've yet to encounter one? They can invent any number of reasons for that. We already know from the lorebook that it is but a rare few who can wield magic. If it's some tiny fraction of their population, there is your reason.

As for why the in-game sources mention their use of conscripts for mage forces, simple - they lack the numbers amongst their own to form any grouped forces out of them. It's of little consequence to whether the WoL could be one, anyhow, and this to me is irrelevant to the point that they already have a source of lore they could exploit to allow for this without a retcon.

Like I've said before, even disregarding the lore, they're still the enemy through the whole game and yes, there are exceptions, but the whole point of those characters is that they're exceptions. WoL isn't special until they start collecting crystals and they're not treated as special by the city-states until partway through the storyline. Why would a pureblood Garlean be running around without getting arrested? The only other pureblood Garleans who are mixing among the Eorzeans hide their 3rd eye. If we have a playable Garlean hide their 3rd eye too, then what's the point?

Because the eye can be hidden. Not sure what's so hard to grasp about this one. Your own comments allude to them essentially looking like Hyur for the most part. Is it really any more jarring than any number of other things people have on their characters, that you can just imagine are not there for the purposes of immersion?

That singular passage is leaving room for its author to be wrong, and that is pretty much it. Name one notable pureblooded Garlean that is capable of using magic. I won't wait, because you cannot. They have yet to show even a single one that wasn't possessed by an Ascian or treated to a special procedure.

That same book also says,

"The Empire has banned religion, seeing it as a barbarian practice that all too often results in the summoning of primals. Many of the inhabitants of Garlemald proper are atheists, a fact attributable to their biological and spiritual inability to harbor and wield aether-based magicks. As theologians believe that religion can only truly develop alongside magic, it is little wonder that the Garleans are disinclined to keep any faith."

Something that is integral to the WoL is that we all believe in a patron deity from The Twelve. As a Garlean pureblood it wouldn't make any sense for us to believe in one of The Twelve. That would have to be removed from character creation, specifically for Garleans. Then Garlean players would feel left out.

Also note that the WoL's age is rather young, mid 20s to late 30s. This means that a pureblooded Garlean WoL would have been born after the introduction of Magitek to their society, and would have even less of a reason to leave Garlemald, to learn arcane arts, and to come be a hero in Eorzea.

As for the Echo, we've been shown half-blooded Garleans can have it through Arenvald. Never a pureblood, though. I'd posit that since the Echo is tied to a being's aetheric waveform, yes, it would be entirely possible for Garleans to have the Echo, but in my opinion it would lay dormant until they learned how to manipulate aether. If their body even could. Of course, even that wouldn't be enough to know they had the Echo. They'd have to encounter an event that let them know they had it. Considering the Echo lies dormant even in individuals who can readily manipulate aether, who's to say that a pureblooded Garlean would ever meet the right condition short of artificial means to precipitate the activation of their Echo? Further still, if Garleans could have the Echo, then why would it be a surprise to them to learn about such a thing from their warring with Eorzea?

To let us play Garleans would be to make the lore bend over backwards to accommodate the possibility. It would break too much while giving so little while also injecting dissonance into nearly every sidequest and cutscene. No thanks.

Then feel free to do as many of us do with characters we find jarring, e.g. in chicken suits, and pretend they don't exist. Problem solved.

None of the reasons enumerated there are in any way compelling blockers to adding them nor do they rule out an exceptional Garlean taking a different view on the matter.

As I said above, while the book can be wrong, it's a "so what?" At present, there is nothing to contradict it - and if it is correct, then along with that fall any objections regarding the Echo.

Trying to mount an argument based on the fact that we've yet to see one (aside from Lucia) do so in-game is not really going to make a difference here, because rarity alone of such individuals would be a sufficient reason for that and does not refute what the lore book is saying.

[Vyrerus]

Trying to mount an argument based on the fact that we've yet to see one (aside from Lucia) do so in-game is not really going to make a difference here, because rarity alone of such individuals would be a sufficient reason for that and does not refute what the lore book is saying.

Someone didn't read the rest of my posts. Even if Lucia at one time cast the cure spell, it's since been changed. I went looking further after I woke up, and found that even Steps of Faith videos from 2015 had her standing off to the side. She still only used Aqua Vitae in the Grand Melee in older videos as well. So there actually wasn't an exception, ever. Although, feel free to show me a receipt (of course, the receipt is ultimately worthless, so you might not want to bother but I am curious).

The lore book refutes itself several times. As does the game. That's multiple refutations to a single sentence, that once again, is merely the author leaving themselves room to be wrong.

I'm sure that if demand got big enough, then money influx would come at the cost of story and lore. I'd rather it didn't though.

----

Also people in the backread seem to be asserting that Cid just gets his Garlean lineage ignored every time he's helping out. That's far from true. We had to calm the Bozjan Resistance down, and were even worried about one of them killing him. Same deal with the Garlean engineer in the GNB questline. Same deal with Nero at the Lotus Stand.

Like it or not, much of the world is not a friendly place to/for Garleans. Being able to start as one makes almost no sense. The twins wouldn't warm up to a Garlean. Yda wouldn't warm up to a Garlean. The idea that a Garlean could remind the City-State leaders of the Warriors of Light from Carteneau is also incredibly laughable.

Now, know I like Garleans. Most of the Garlean cast contain most of my favorite NPCs. But getting to play as one just does not make for a cohesive narrative. The other new races don't present problems in this manner because them existing has no stakes or backstory in the narrative. Bunny Boys and Horny Toads and Manthers all can work because they ultimately don't matter to the narrative nearly as much as Garleans.

Also @Theodric. You need to replay FFVI. Celes's imperial background is grounds for suspicion, even from Locke. Right away by Cyan. Kefka plants the seed of doubt at the Magitek Research Facility, and it causes a temporary rift between Celes and the party. It's one of the more interesting bits in the game. She even goes back to working for the Empire after warping Kefka away, until after the events of Thamasa. She only fully proves her true allegiance when she stabs Kefka on the floating continent.