Apartments need Rent

[MilkieTea]

I'm confused on why there's an argument about gil sinks to begin with.

The topic was how to make apartments more appealing to players. Telling them the appeal is, "Because you gotta lose gil somehow" probably wont register well with most people.

I only piped in because somewhere along the line, Almagnus started talking about gil sinks. Either way, this is unappealing and lacks finesse.

[Almagnus1]

I only piped in because somewhere along the line, Almagnus started talking about gil sinks. Either way, this is unappealing and lacks finesse.

And if all the houses (and apartments) had rent on them... it would make it significantly more difficult for someone to hoard houses and making it difficult for people in addition to bleeding some gil from the economy. The goal here isn't to drain Lake Powell by blowing up the dam... but to provide another way to redirect some water from the Colorado so that Lake Powell doesn't over flow... akin to having a series of luxury hotels in the area that are consuming the water from the lake and pumping the water out to a nearby city. The problem with MMO economies, however, is that they do not work like the real world one because they are all about currency creation and destruction, with the economy retaining some of the currency and that cycling amongst the playerbase.

But back to rent, several other MMOs do this, and going by IRL, while you don't have rent on most houses (ignoring the housing payment until the load is paid off) you do have maintenance costs... especially when your AC decides to commit sudoku in the middle of a heat wave! =D **cries in sweat**

[MilkieTea]

And if all the houses (and apartments) had rent on them... it would make it significantly more difficult for someone to hoard houses and making it difficult for people in addition to bleeding some gil from the economy. The goal here isn't to drain Lake Powell by blowing up the dam... but to provide another way to redirect some water from the Colorado so that Lake Powell doesn't over flow... akin to having a series of luxury hotels in the area that are consuming the water from the lake and pumping the water out to a nearby city. The problem with MMO economies, however, is that they do not work like the real world one because they are all about currency creation and destruction, with the economy retaining some of the currency and that cycling amongst the playerbase.

But back to rent, several other MMOs do this, and going by IRL, while you don't have rent on most houses (ignoring the housing payment until the load is paid off) you do have maintenance costs... especially when your AC decides to commit sudoku in the middle of a heat wave! =D **cries in sweat**

Using your analogy - this idea would be akin to diverting nothing but a tiny, tiny, tiny creek (like the kinds you step over with half a step). It's not nearly enough because precipitation would just add that back in anyways. Will lake powell overflow? With the tiny amount being diverted, any big rain shower would send it overflowing.

If you want a weekly gil sink - MAKE luxury hotel. Apartments are not luxury hotels. Make something that COUNTS - because 10k a week, 20k, 30k, 100k, won't do anything. And once you start getting into the prices that WOULD make even a small amount of difference, you'd have to justify it - and apartments don't justify that cost.

[Almagnus1]

Using your analogy - this idea would be akin to diverting nothing but a tiny, tiny, tiny creek (like the kinds you step over with half a step). It's not nearly enough because precipitation would just add that back in anyways. Will lake powell overflow? With the tiny amount being diverted, any big rain shower would send it overflowing.

I think it'd do more than you think it would. If you take a set of 90 apartments, that's going to pump out 900k gil/week per ward. With 24 wards across four housing areas (and each ward having two complexes), we're looking at 172,800,000 gil leaving the economy PER WEEK (assuming full apartment occupancy). Yes, the 10k gil/week per player is completely trivial, but when you start looking at the total economic impact, it's actually a lot more than you think it is.

Now if we do the same for houses, and go with X k upkeep per house (and arguably there should be a multiplier for the FC houses) then we are looking at least 5,760 * x gil per week leaving the economy. Or to put it this way, if the housing rent was between 10k to 100k , that would result between 57,600,000 gil/week and 576,000,000 gil/week leaving economy. All you'd need to do to cross the billion gil per week deleted is charge 173,612 gil/week rent on the houses.

I totally get that on a per person level the number is completely trivial, but that's the point of a good gil sink - it's something the average player wouldn't think twice about paying but when it's scaled up across everyone in a system, it actually deletes out quite a bit of gil. In other words, this is how Patreon can make an artist a millionaire in a month.

[Nepentha]

And if all the houses (and apartments) had rent on them... it would make it significantly more difficult for someone to hoard houses and making it difficult for people in addition to bleeding some gil from the economy.

Except will do exactly none of that. Bleed a tiny bit of gil perhaps, but I don't think you realize just how rich players are. At all. MilkietTea is right, it has to be something players want to spend money on.

The problem with MMO economies, however, is that they do not work like the real world one because they are all about currency creation and destruction, with the economy retaining some of the currency and that cycling amongst the playerbase.

You are so close to finally understanding. And then....

But back to rent, several other MMOs do this, and going by IRL, while you don't have rent on most houses (ignoring the housing payment until the load is paid off) you do have maintenance costs... especially when your AC decides to commit sudoku in the middle of a heat wave! =D **cries in sweat**

This isn't real life. It's a game, as you acknowledged previously. I don't know what MMOs do this, but FFXIV isn't like to implement this. (SWTOR doesn't, ESO doesn't. WoW doesn't even have housing, and no I don't count garrisons.)

Again, your time and imagination are better spent on things SE is more likely to consider. This isn't one of them, no matter how much you try to justify it.

[Besame]

"Hoarders unite!, don't let them take away the right to be rich!" hehe. No Forced Gill Sinks (shoos her troll back under the bridge...)

[Sotaris]

Point here is to add in a gil sink to the game where one isn't already existing. With as low as it is on apartments, it sets precedent to do the same for houses, where it can be much higher (especially on the FC houses). If the FC house rent is a lot higher than the house rent (and both higher than the apartment rent) it makes owning and operating a shell FC house that much harder to do because you've got to deal with the rent. Right now, with such a trivial amount on apartments, it basically serves to introduce the gil sink, make apartments a lot easier to get into (lower GC rank and 100k vs 500k initial cost) so (in essence) it's opening them up.

And just because you disagree with the idea doesn't make it a troll thread =)

But there is zero incentive to have a gilsink like a "rent". It would be much better in that case to expand the gilsink mounts they added some time ago.

I never said "disagree = troll thread" but the suggestion is so absurd that it easy to make that assumption =)

[MilkieTea]

The problem is veteran player wealth has increased so much compared to the fees that they're no longer as effective as general gil sinks. SE can't just increase the fees to reflect veteran player wealth because that would leave new players at a severe disadvantage.

I should’ve been more clear, because you make valid points and I feel like my message was missed in my haste to just spit out what I was thinking before I lost it.

Gil sinks targeting the demographic of players that would be buying apartments can’t be too cheap. They fall in the middle-ground of “hoarder levels of wealthy HOLY crap” and “you’re not buying that 200k item for weeks”.

They’ve got too much gil for gil sinks of 10k-100k to work (unless they’re getting house poor just from an apartment in which case they wouldn’t appreciate a new system that takes money from them every week). Which is why gil sinks targeting the players it seems OP is targeting won’t work - they can’t be too cheap. 10k is PENNIES (which OP has inadvertently admitted to in earlier posts) and tacking it on as a weekly gil “sink” wouldn’t necessarily work, as the majority of this playerbase does at least one daily a week - which would simply nullify it.

Not to mention the fact that at endgame, it is about 3 hours work to do all of your roulettes and earn anywhere from 100k-200k in one day. Which generates gil from thin-air, essentially.

So yeah, you’re right in that gil sinks can absolutely be cheap. I’m sorry for not being clear in what I meant. I’m moreso talking about this specific player demographic that OP has mentioned (endgame players) as well as the demographic that would be purchasing apartments.

[MilkieTea]

Short answer: We don't need it.

Long answer: We don't need it but the OP is pushing for it anyway, even though it's a bad idea. Gotta admire their tenacity I guess.

Even longer answer: We don’t need it, but OP is really pushing for the idea to BE a gil sink when their original post started out as an idea to make apartments more appealing as a housing option.

[MilkieTea]

I would like a source on this myself. Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence.

That's why they need to restrict personal houses to one per server.

That's why appartments need access to yard space (so we have true instanced housing).

That's why there needs to be a random, invisibile, timer that lasts between 1 to 24 hours when house is released so the risk involved with getting your house from a house flipper is so great, that many will not want to do just that.

2/3 are ingame now!

The last paragraph was someones signature, too. Though I don’t know whose, and OP said that it was harassment to have their signature be OP’s quote. (If I’m remembering correctly)