ARR needs two simple fixes until an actual revamp

[van_arn]

In truth does ARR offer any compelling content outside the setup of the world?

Nothing that can't be glossed over with a quick scroll of text. The rest can be learned in media res. If further details are desired, that's what NG+ is for.

Are you asking them to make...Like, a movie or something to get people caught up to what happened/what is going on when HW starts?

Not really, those already exist on youtube for those that care enough to find them.

[Awha]

Nothing that can't be glossed over with a quick scroll of text. The rest can be learned in media res. If further details are desired, that's what NG+ is for.



Not really, those already exist on youtube for those that care enough to find them.

Aye, I feel the same way.

Does bread offer anything compelling to a sandwich other than holding the fillings?

I get what you are going for but by the definition of sandwich it would not be one without the bread.

Point is while it could be said for any expansion I do feel more so for ARR every major beat could be addressed in a short exposition dump and the game itself would not be drastically altered that it could no longer be considered a game. Especially with NG+.

From a gameplay perspective it is dull. Classes generally feel for the most part shallow at 50, the dungeon design is dated. Overall ARR did not age well imo.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I get what you are going for but by the definition of sandwich it would not be one without the bread.

Point is while it could be said for any expansion I do feel more so for ARR every major beat could be addressed in a short exposition dump and the game itself would not be drastically altered that it could no longer be considered a game. Especially with NG+.

From a gameplay perspective it is dull. Classes generally feel for the most part shallow at 50, the dungeon design is dated. Overall ARR did not age well imo.

If you're replacing game play with exposition dumps, then it's not much of a game anymore. And saying "but NG+" isn't really relevant, because what's the point of abridging the game if you have to go back and play it all anyway?

I'm not gonna pretend ARR is a masterpiece (a lot of jobs really do need more to do at lower levels, for one thing, and a lot of the English voice work is.....questionable, at best), but to say you could just turn it all into a couple of cut scenes is terribly reductive.

I would also argue that most of the old dungeons are fine, the later ones are overly streamlined. The problem most of them run into is the overly generous item level sync.

[Awha]

If you're replacing game play with exposition dumps, then it's not much of a game anymore. And saying "but NG+" isn't really relevant, because what's the point of abridging the game if you have to go back and play it all anyway?

I'm not gonna pretend ARR is a masterpiece (a lot of jobs really do need more to do at lower levels, for one thing, and a lot of the English voice work is.....questionable, at best), but to say you could just turn it all into a couple of cut scenes is terribly reductive.

I would also argue that most of the old dungeons are fine, the later ones are overly streamlined. The problem most of them run into is the overly generous item level sync.

Thing with an MMO as time goes on parts become obsolete and serve no real purpose in terms of raw gameplay that would alter the core experience if they just did an large exposition dump. While a sandwich would not be much a sandwich without the bread.

Sure it is reductive but personally I think it would be better use or dev time to have the lore writters to make a quick abridged scroll and if people want to go back they can use NG+ though I do not think they should try to keep fixing it.

Just the nature of MMO's. I get this will never be done.

[Lanadra]

Thing with an MMO as time goes on parts become obsolete and serve no real purpose in terms of raw gameplay that would alter the core experience if they just did an large exposition dump. While a sandwich would not be much a sandwich without the bread.

Sure it is reductive but personally I think it would be better use or dev time to have the lore writters to make a quick abridged scroll and if people want to go back they can use NG+ though I do not think they should try to keep fixing it.

Just the nature of MMO's. I get this will never be done.

People hate exposition dumps. I would rather take ARR as it is now over some half hour long exposition dump of which I won't remember half by the end. Removing content is never, ever a good idea.

Saying that it's fine is okay if you already gotten past it, but can you honestly do it all again vs the other expansions? SE wants more players and the game needs more to help the game not fall into irrelevance.

Yes, actually. I did it just now in the last two weeks with a new character on Lamia. It really isn't as horrendous as people make it out to be. It didn't age well, but I would never recommend people buy a skip or just skip cutscenes in ARR on their first character.

[Awha]

People hate exposition dumps. I would rather take ARR as it is now over some half hour long exposition dump of which I won't remember half by the end. Removing content is never, ever a good idea.



Yes, actually. I did it just now in the last two weeks with a new character on Lamia. It really isn't as horrendous as people make it out to be. It didn't age well, but I would never recommend people buy a skip or just skip cutscenes in ARR on their first character.

ARR at the core is just an exposition dump though. Also with NG+ the content is not being removed the option to go back will always exist. They could also just toss in a free ARR story skip for first time buyers.

Granted this will also never be done due to profits.

In the end I will always tell my friends and new players buy a story skip for ARR and just lo ok up lore videos if they want the nitty gritty. ARR is a poor representation of FFXIV in its current state. Everything about ARR is dated would take far too much effort to make it tolerable.

[Shurrikhan]

Thing with an MMO as time goes on parts become obsolete and serve no real purpose in terms of raw gameplay that would alter the core experience if they just did an large exposition dump. While a sandwich would not be much a sandwich without the bread.

Sure it is reductive but personally I think it would be better use or dev time to have the lore writers to make a quick abridged scroll and if people want to go back they can use NG+ though I do not think they should try to keep fixing it.

Wouldn't it make more sense to do any of this abridging after the conclusion of the Hydaelyn arc, leading directly to that new arc with a sort of two-pronged focus? (Hell, that could be massive in terms of bringing in new players, as they could go straight to the newest expansion alongside everyone else, albeit it on an adjusted path of discourse and NPC interactions, while the previous Arc is available via Echo for leveling other jobs).

In the meantime, though, we need only make more of the much less relevant arcs (Haukke Manor, much of the Company of Heroes, etc.) optional and improve the early combat experience, much of which could have more universal implications.

[Awha]

Wouldn't it make more sense to do any of this abridging after the conclusion of the Hydaelyn arc, leading directly to that new arc with a sort of two-pronged focus? (Hell, that could be massive in terms of bringing in new players, as they could go straight to the newest expansion alongside everyone else, albeit it on an adjusted path of discourse and NPC interactions, while the previous Arc is available via Echo for leveling other jobs).

In the meantime, though, we need only make more of the much less relevant arcs (Haukke Manor, much of the Company of Heroes, etc.) optional and improve the early combat experience, much of which could have more universal implications.

Yes, but to be fair I do already think they are going to already do this going forward with 7.0 akin to a soft reboot or new arc after a hiatus. So with that in mind my suggestion—while unlikely—is based around less of a slog since I feel 90% of ARR could largely be seen as optional or text scroll fulfills the same purpose of ARR. From a gameplay POV I cannot say ARR has any real meaningful moments that are tied to gameplay. Sure adjustments to jobs and making the less story relevant arcs as optional would help but just speaking from personal experiences as someone who has tried FFXIV many times prior to story skips I could never get into HW due to the long slog of ARR and even after the rework of the storyline the massive experience gains coupled with a preferred world only make it worse due to the nature of our content and how it syncs you down. Going large chunks of levels without getting new skills due to them being story gated is not a great feeling either.

The structure of FFXIV puts SE in a weird spot I get this much, but personally I did enjoy my time with the game from HW on, and from an anecdotal POV many of those I have referred have felt the same way. Pretty much whenever I ask a friend to join I gift them a story skip. I have still been able to follow the story beats and do not feel like I have messed out in anything by not experiencing ARR. Granted, I have gone back with NG+ And I do still feel the same like I did not miss out on anything, through maybe that will change with endwalker I am not sure.

[van_arn]

If you're replacing game play with exposition dumps, then it's not much of a game anymore. And saying "but NG+" isn't really relevant, because what's the point of abridging the game if you have to go back and play it all anyway?

I'm not gonna pretend ARR is a masterpiece (a lot of jobs really do need more to do at lower levels, for one thing, and a lot of the English voice work is.....questionable, at best), but to say you could just turn it all into a couple of cut scenes is terribly reductive.

I would also argue that most of the old dungeons are fine, the later ones are overly streamlined. The problem most of them run into is the overly generous item level sync.

That's exactly the problem with ARR right now. It's an exposition dump with very little gameplay. It's a cutscene gallery, just like we see in the Praetorium.

Just make it optional. Having it available through NG+ is a way to make it optional. And I don't need to keep telling people "ARR doesn't represent the game, just tough it out until Heavensward."