What is parsing?

[Avidria]

The game teaches you everything you have to know. Heck how do you think the people who made the guides found out? Throug some visions from hydaelyn and yoshi p after they smoked too much? And how did stuff worked before damage meters were a thing? Guess in ancient times people never did their rotations right. The really linear job design of FFXIV isn't really rocketscience.

I can see how guides are useful to many players but heck saying the rotations exist just because of some damage meter and everyone using a jobs rotation in the right way does that cause of these guides/damage meters is a really really bold statement.

Most of the guides and rotations I've read are in fact developed using parsing and simulation to figure out what's actually optimum, down to exactly what gear and materia is actually best in slot. They didn't magic the information out of nowhere, but odds are good that a fair number of people didn't do it solely with what's available in game either. I'd imagine the people who made the mods and did the math put in the time to learn how the game works, but I also don't know anything about how they were actually put together so I dunno really. And I mean, I'm sure it's entirely possible to figure out something fairly close to the most optimal rotation just from the game alone, but how many people are going to actually do that? Easier to look up a guide made by someone who did the work already, and even better if they've got quantifiable data and tools to help define what the best options actually, definitely are.

I don't run a parser and never have but one example that ZedxKayn's post reminded me of is this bard I used to play with back in Heavensward who was absolutely convinced that they were doing more damage without using minuet EVER than a bard who is using it. Based on the numbers that could be found online though... they were consistently doing less than half of my damage, and I was by no means an amazing bard. They thought they had the class figured out based on what the game was telling them but they very clearly did not. Bit of an extreme example since it involves someone actively ignoring part of their kit, but I've seen enough people who were very confidently wrong that it wouldn't surprise me if there were plenty who genuinely believe they've figured it out from just playing the game when they're really way farther off base than they think.

[Shurrikhan]

Unimportant in 14. Absolutely all important in WoW.

Much like competence or self-improvement.

[HyoMinPark]

The game teaches you everything you have to know. Heck how do you think the people who made the guides found out? Throug some visions from hydaelyn and yoshi p after they smoked too much? And how did stuff worked before damage meters were a thing? Guess in ancient times people never did their rotations right. The really linear job design of FFXIV isn't really rocketscience.

I can see how guides are useful to many players but heck saying the rotations exist just because of some damage meter and everyone using a jobs rotation in the right way does that cause of these guides/damage meters is a really really bold statement.

Players that make job guides use parsers. Combined with analyzing tooltips, they also spent countless hours on dummies and using rotation simulators to find out the most optimal openers and rotations. DNC and GNB theorycrafters were crafting openers and rotational guides before Shadowbringers even released. I’m sure it will be the same for Sage and Reaper once we have tooltip and potency information on them.

This game doesn’t give you anything beyond tooltips and dotted lines around 1-2-3 combos. It doesn’t tell you anything more than that outside of quest blurbs about new skills (though those certainly don’t tell you how to use said skills). It fell to the playerbase to determine things outside of the bare basics of pressing 1-2-3 in the correct order—and the ones who did all this theorycrafting utilized numbers and parsers.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this game isn’t as straightforward as you think. It may handhold a lot, but it doesn’t handhold when it comes to rotations.

[Liam_Harper]

The game teaches you everything you have to know.

Oh no. Make it stop.

[Shurrikhan]

The game teaches you everything you have to know.

No, it does a pretty notoriously bad job of that.

Heck how do you think the people who made the guides found out?

Through actual testing, which generally included the use of parsers, else we'd never be able to catch such blatant errors as a skill potency being outright wrong (not as listed on its tooltip), let alone know what percentage of player potency "pet potency" would be worth at a given level.

[Ranaku]

Players that make job guides use parsers. Combined with analyzing tooltips, they also spent countless hours on dummies and using rotation simulators to find out the most optimal openers and rotations. DNC and GNB theorycrafters were crafting openers and rotational guides before Shadowbringers even released. I’m sure it will be the same for Sage and Reaper once we have tooltip and potency information on them.

This game doesn’t give you anything beyond tooltips and dotted lines around 1-2-3 combos. It doesn’t tell you anything more than that outside of quest blurbs about new skills (though those certainly don’t tell you how to use said skills). It fell to the playerbase to determine things outside of the bare basics of pressing 1-2-3 in the correct order—and the ones who did all this theorycrafting utilized numbers and parsers.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this game isn’t as straightforward as you think. It may handhold a lot, but it doesn’t handhold when it comes to rotations.

I never denied that the players who make the guides use parsers. Never denied it isn't helpful for new players etc. who maybe want to get into the endgame quick buy boosters and need to learn quick how to perform well.

But sorry to burst your bubble, the game is really straight forward when it comes to rotations. There isn't any variables like for example on world of warcraft where you can use differend specs or talents and all that stuff. In XIV there is one fix rotation made by the developers, there is one way how a job is meant to be played. And you don't need a guide to tell you that especially if you play from lvl 1 up to max level where you can get used with every new action to said action and new combo chains they give you.

And it still doesn't answer the question, how do you guys (and gurls) think they did it before parsers and guides? Guess fellas never cleared stuff before these people descended from the heavens to bless us with their wisdom cause we can't use our brains. Guess back then in ARR all our clears were just pure luck, especially when the game came fresh out. Weird.

[Rilifane]

The game teaches you everything you have to know.

The only thing the game gives you is:
- raw potencies without any modifiers
- flashy frames for combo actions to tell you which one to press next

That's it. It doesn't give you information on:
- animation lock of oGCDs and thus clipping vs weaving
- caster tax
- slidecasting
- many modifier values (fairy potencies, tank potencies, AF/ UI potencies)
- main stat values
- substat values/ tiers
- which skills are affected by certain buffs, e.g. some RDM oGCDs and Embolden, fairy skills and Fey Illumination etc.
- how party buffs stack
- which skills are unaffected by SkS/ SpS

The difference between someone only knowing the first part and someone also knowing the second part is huge.

[Caitsithhh]

I never denied that the players who make the guides use parsers. Never denied it isn't helpful for new players etc. who maybe want to get into the endgame quick buy boosters and need to learn quick how to perform well.

But sorry to burst your bubble, the game is really straight forward when it comes to rotations. There isn't any variables like for example on world of warcraft where you can use differend specs or talents and all that stuff. In XIV there is one fix rotation made by the developers, there is one way how a job is meant to be played. And you don't need a guide to tell you that especially if you play from lvl 1 up to max level where you can get used with every new action to said action and new combo chains they give you.

And it still doesn't answer the question, how do you guys (and gurls) think they did it before parsers and guides? Guess fellas never cleared stuff before these people descended from the heavens to bless us with their wisdom cause we can't use our brains. Guess back then in ARR all our clears were just pure luck, especially when the game came fresh out. Weird.

Nah, the clear rates were abysmal and such. Not to mention this addon was originally made for games much older than most seem on the forums. They’ve always been around. You’re free to play blind and freestyle all you want but you are the exact person that should make parties for people just like yourself.

[Ranaku]

You don't need to know the exact damage number you deal, as i said before yes it is sure nice to know. I am not arguing here against parsers or anything. All i am saying is that it is not that hard to press 1 then 2 and then 3 and hit glowing combo actions. It is not hard to know that you use your dance as a dancer everytime it is available. There was a statement made here that "You do realize that rotation you're using is made through a parser, yes?". So no, rotations are not made through parsers, the devs made the rotation and for every job there is only one right way to play it. It is not that hard to understand.

So no i don't say that there aren't more things to this, like different melds and best in slots and all these things. And heck i am the first one who would agree with all of you that the things the game gives us to see if we do well enough for raids, which would be the training dummies, aren't good at all. Would be great if they would give us some data about how well we did and not only a "hey you killed it in time". But still, the basic rotation and basic combos aren't made up by parsers and you don't need a guide to know how to press the glowing buttons on your screen. I mean what do you guys think, that the devs developed that game with the hope that for sure a community about it with a parser will form cause there is no other way to figure out the stuff they push out? That is a really really hilarious thought, what if the parser scene never formed? What if there were no guides? It's really bold to believe that a rotation is only given by guides and can't figured out in other ways. Which was the statement i argued against in the first place, not the validity of guides or anything else.

[Rinhi]

I thought I was doing my rotation correctly too and that I was doing a ton of damage and the sole reason the enemies were dying quickly - till my friends showed me I did less way damage than the tank on average throughout multiple dungeons, trials and whatnot
just because you THINK you play well doesn't mean you are playing well

I mean what do you guys think, that the devs developed that game with the hope that for sure a community about it with a parser will form cause there is no other way to figure out the stuff they push out?

considering that 90% of the content is tuned in a way that a light/full party of people who don't know what they're doing can clear it (albeit slowly)? I don't think they care about the rotations that much either - which is pretty bad
only some duties can't get cleared if everyone is playing badly and I think more duties should have an enrage tbh