Role quest in Endwalker worry me. Job quest make this an RPG

[Beddict]

Yeah, nobody is "training" you in these long lost magics. You learn them through the job crystal.

Yeah, everything is learned from the Soul Crystal. From page 217 of Encyclopedia Eorzea Vol. I:

Ever since the height of the Allagan Empire in the Third Astral Era, the practice of using crystals to store and impart knowledge has been prevalent in Eorzea. An adornment known as a "soul crystal" is worn close to the skin, where the uncommonly clear facets of the carefully cut shard catch and transcribe the ebb and flow of a soul's aetherial composition - effectively capturing an imperfect echo of the wearer's memories. This arcane tool engraved with the myriad deeds of heroes from eras past was employed by many of the disciplines of yesteryear to preserve and pass on the skill of successive generations of masters.

The wisdom contained in a soul crystals, however, is not so easily drawn forth - an untrained neophyte cannot simply pick up one of these gems and expect his mind to be flooded with the knowledge of advanced spellcraft or combat techniques. Without first attaining sufficient proficiency and tempering one's soul to mirror the maturity of the crystal's contributors, a prospective student will be denied even the slightest glimpse of enlightenment. Thus, as is the case with the more contemporary disciplines, the key to mastering the secrets of a soul crystal lies in diligent study and training.

This is backed up in game, with some Job Quests concluding with a line about attuning to the Soul Crystal. There's also other knowledge gained from the Soul Crystals, with one obvious example being Fray. Despite the real Fray being dead, our Darkside manifesting as Fray was still able to explain the origins of the Dark Knights. In the White Mage Job Quests, a simulacrum of the long dead A-Towa-Cant appears from the Soul Crystal. There's a lot going on with Soul Crystals, transcribing skills, spells, memories, and even simulacrums of past owners. Don't really need a teacher when the WoL is incredibly gifted and capable of mastering all forms of combat, not to mention the Echo that may help them see into the souls and memories stored in the Soul Crystal.

[Garnix]

I find it funny that those "soul" crystals started being used by the Allagan Empire.
The same Empire in which Emet was deeply involved. The good ol' Emet, who had very specific skills regarding souls. And regarding soul crystals too (thinking about the Ascians crystals that he made).

Did Emet create the soul crystals in order to...find us?...Find the one that would resonate the most with them?...
Now I kinda want the role quest to explain Emet's involvement with the soul crystals...thanks! :P

[bundythenoob]

the way I see it, both sides are equally valid in their arguments; HOWEVER, I think pinning the blame on "FFXIV Veterans" and "WoW Refugees" is the wrong way to go. you guys both have to understand that OP's complaints come from a place of deep love for the genre, and watching this once great game make the same exact mistakes that WoW made is what is upsetting him. I too was a WoW player once who enjoyed the storytelling of the game's class quests, and I liked that ARR tried to emulate that.
OP must also understand that the complaints the veterans have are not born from a hatred of storytelling, but rather because the storytelling in this game has always been inconsistent.

in my opinion, you guys are not seeing the bigger picture here. there can be no denying that over the years, this game's once unique charm is being eroded away similar to WoW, and you all must realise that this argument is between those who love the MMORPG genre for what it is and what it could be, and those who simply want to be rewarded for doing nothing, clear content easily and cannot be arsed to put any effort into anything. this is ultimately an argument between the people who love the overall experience that the game could potentially offer vs the people who could give less of a shit about the game because they are busy standing around ERPing in Limsa or paying for mog station mounts and raid clears.

the one argument I cannot stand however, is the "overworked understaffed devs" argument. why on earth are people defending square enix's decision to TAKE THE MONEY YOU PAY INTO THE GAME, AND NOT PUT IT BACK INTO BETTERING THE GAME? why are you guys not furious that square is taking the majority of the profits from XIV? profits that are a direct result of YOU? profits that YOU should at least receive some benefits from, rather than profits which do not go back into XIV??

They have had 2 years worth of profit alone from SHB, and rather than hiring more job devs to fix the valid criticism of gameplay identity loss of tanks and healers, hiring more quest writing devs to fix the atrocious writing of some job quests so they can be on par with DRK and SAm 50-60, hiring some coding devs to clean the 1.0 spaghetti code so they can move away from the awfully scripted encounter design, square chooses to piss YOUR money away into other projects. and you guys are okay with that?

I for one am not, which is why I will NEVER resub until this game returns to its roots... an MMO-RPG with a variety of jobs that offer a variety of playstyles, from beginners who are just starting their journey into an MMO, to veterans looking for a challenge after mastering their class and role, and for those midcore players who see the vets in action and look to grow as a player alongside their peers so they can earn rewards, rather than being handed them on a silver platter alongside their mog station cruise chaser mount.

[Shin96]

-snip-

What can you do. The game has run its course; 4 expansions later and that's where we are. Most of if this if not all can be attributed directly to complacency from both the developers side and the playerbase.

FFXIV is nearing towards the end. Yes, they might create 2-3 more expansions but we are past the "golden age" of this game. Ideas were scrapped, integrated, or stayed relatively much the same. Creativity and risk undertaking have significantly decreased. They are not going to take any chances by introducing mechanics and in-game systems that would put off the majority of players. The only way that would work is by slowly conditioning players by increasing the standards, which they also won't do. I think.

As for them not using the funds they get; people don't hold them accountable. The reason for this is simple. If this is the only good MMO left, you have no alternatives. Take it or leave it, a few ideas can potentially ruin other areas where the game is doing exceptionally well. It's modesty. In short: Beggars can't be choosers.

Though I do agree for the most part. Every successful game will be riddled with people at some point that don't actually give a chocobo's shite about the gameplay or the job-quests for that matter. They're there for the social aspects, friends, streamers and whatnot. It's the fate of every good game and there is your proof that FFXIV indeed, was kinda the best MMO to exist. That's how I personally view it.

Staying on the topic, they already have so many jobs, and tying in actions to unlock them.. I think it's better they stick to one big quest for each job. It's fine if they can manage it.

[Garnix]

You guys are acting as if money and hiring more people would change the design choices made by the devs.
Not to mention that we have no idea how the team scaled up. Ramping up takes time. You cannot hire a new guy and tell him "OK go fix spaghetti code". You also cannot hire a guy and directly have him change jobs gameplay design philosophy. You can hire a guy to make it so that the veteran devs would have more free time to think about this kind of things though.

Because you don't get the content you want doesn't mean they are not re-investing the money. Improved animations is one of the things they obviously worked on. That takes money. Increased amount of voice acting:money. Oceania data center:money. Implement new features like Island sanctuary big fishing etc while still maintaining everything else:money. God even doing the Stat squish probably costs quite a bit.

I would absolutely hold them accountable on not reusing the funds if I had facts to back me up, but I don't.
I don't always agree with their sense of priority though. But that has nothing to do with money.

[Ayche]

Well the job quests were very good vehicles for telling lot of stories, and some did not even have to be really focused on the job they belonged to. White Mage is more about Gridania than about being a White Mage. It would be a huge shame if they dropped all those characters they spent the ARR, HW and SB quests developing. But then again, Shadowbringers did have the one-off quest still.On the other hand, I don't think the format of old job questlines is worth keeping at this point, I don't think each job needs 5-6 quests tied to a storyline each expansion where we learn all the new actions. But incorporating all these established characters and tying them together with the role quests would be a good solution. I actually do want to visit Widargelt each expansion and see how he is doing.

[MellowMink]

I personally like what Shadowbringers did: Have role quests related to characters who fit those roles while further developing an engaging story, and then have single job quests for each job so that doing them feels less like a chore. I hope that pattern is followed for Endwalker as well; I don't want every single job to always get another five or so job quests every expansion.

[Tsiron]

The way I see it, our character has kind of the power to transcended the need for a teacher at this point (barring any new Jobs), so I was fine with and liked the Role Quests quite a bit, actually. Felt like we were (finally) Adventurers, y'know? I thought the writing was quite good, the way they used them to both flesh out the First and Ardbert and his companions, and the fact it all ties into something else down the line made them worth doing for me. Obviously, a lot of that comes down to the specific setting of being in a new location, so I'm definitely curious to see how they'll handle Role Quests back in the familiar territory of the Source?

[ItMe]

Hmm... the ARR & HW job quests, I felt at least, did a pretty good job of explaining this. You learn your abilities through your job stone. Every time you complete a quest that awards a new ability, you hold the stone up at the end when it tells you your new ability and usually gives you some sort of message similar to that. And if you have completed Shadowbringers, this is sort of hinted at even more.

Yeah~
Soul crystal -> new moves.
But we are capable and knowledgeable enough that we could invent some of the moves too. Not every skill needs to be taught to us either by a mentor or the soul of a dead person..
It could be a cool thing to explore~

[Hjihna]

I don't like this assumption that more job quests are better for role playing or job engagement or fun. When I started playing, PAL was my first job. The story from 30-50 was decent and engaging, if a bit generic; 50-58 had potential and seemed to be building up to something; 60 was an utter trainwreck, and they gave up writing Paladin in 60-70. That actively pissed me off. That actively made me dislike playing Paladin. The tank role quest in ShB was a more compelling reason to play PAL, and to think about the ideals of knighthood and chivalry and service, than all the 50-70 PAL job quests. That's what you want more of? 20 new job quest lines, half of them half-assed, a drag and irritation to play through? That's *good* for role playing?

If you like the PAL quests, bully for you. I ain't gonna yuck your yum. But a game isn't better because it has more writing. I'd rather have less writing and have it be good, than more writing and have it be bad. If that means not hiring more writers of dubious ability, or cutting the load so more of it's being handled by good writers, great. I'll take more ShB role quests over more PAL 50-70 bullshit any time, any day.