Congratulations Square Enix! FF4 surpasses WoW this year. (Source inside)

[Y2K21]

This games population peaked at around 1.4 million some time after SHB launch, but averages a population ranging from 800k-1mil active subs.

Their supposed "daily active players" is well over double the active player count in Lucky Bancho's latest census.

Even if he wants to argue LuckyBancho numbers -- he would have to prove that 1.5 million players are either free-to-play, sub level-60, or bought boosts and havent touched them since; because those are LuckyBancho's main areas where they do not count.

[linayar]

Even if he wants to argue LuckyBancho numbers -- he would have to prove that 1.5 million players are either free-to-play, sub level-60, or bought boosts and havent touched them since; because those are LuckyBancho's main areas where they do not count.

While I do not think much about the claims made in this thread, I don't think it's fair to disqualify free-to-play players after the 5.3 update as they are playing the entire base game and its first expansion. They are definitely part of the community, in roulettes and other contents even with the existing restrictions.

[Anhra]

I understand how large WoW was back in the day. I played it during its height. Several million people still play mostly because of their deep connection with the game, their guilds, and friends.

However, when you say FFXIV never reached WoW heights I don't believe anyone would argue with that. But its also in my opinion an unfair comparison. MMOs do not pull the massive audiences they used to. WoW at its peak with Wrath had 12 million players. It was pretty much the Fortnite of its age and MMOs were like the BRs of today in popularity. However, it has since then lost the majority of that audience over the years. I do not believe any subscription based MMO will EVER top 12 million players again.

But FFXIV does have the potential to surpass current day WoW in the years to come. FF has been growing while WoW has been declining. I'm not saying it will, but it has a decent chance. Depending on the quality of content both Square and Blizzard puts out in the future.

It is indeed as unfair in comparison as it is interesting. If i recall correctly, Shadowbringers had peaked with 7 Million active Players during its peak, which means it reached pretty much the halfway point of what WoW pulled off. In my opinion, the Lich King was one of the biggest factor on why WoW peaked so hard during WotLK. He had an amazing character build-up starting with Warcraft 3 which aged since then like a fine wine, since you knew during classic and burning crusade, that he is still arround.

Another factor, from what i think kept people playing the game, was the gameplay elements it had which kept combat always interesting:
-Weapons, trinkets and armor have special effects (which work in both pve and pvp) and iirc, some professions like engineering, could even add certain active effects like a rocket jump or a parashute for example.
-every class had 3 skilltrees with a limited amount of skillpoints to spent so that you could never have all at once, but enough to have alot of variety.
-not every Skill a Class had was all about combat, some have fun and handy skills such as Mages being able to create Portals to Towns or crate food, Warlocks can do a Ritual to create stones that can restore HP or another ritual that can summon people to your location for example.

And now, look back at FFXIV and what it has. I am not trying to make things look bad here, but my point is, FFXIV still has a very long way to go.

[Vahlnir]

Tends to happen with MMO content droughts.

And games that actively seem to punish players everywhere they turn just for playing.

[linayar]

FFXIV still has a very long way to go.

Maybe, maybe not. The MMORPG scene (and even the entire Internet scene) has changed since the late 2000s. 12+ million active players might no longer be achievable by a subscription-based game and so would probably not be the milestone that should be set. What FFXIV has done is change from a game that had to be shut down to a game that continues to see new, higher peaks in active daily users, as mentioned by Yoshida himself in one of the recent interviews. It's not at the level of WoW's early increase, and it's not steady as not everyone stays subscribed and others quit entirely, but it still has a positive trajectory overall, no doubt helped by the generous free trial.

And that, in my opinion, is already more than good enough. Beyond that, the statement "a long way to go" could describe any game, including modern WoW. And we know FFXIV is in it for the long haul unless something happens to Yoshida or the management in general.

[Y2K21]

While I do not think much about the claims made in this thread, I don't think it's fair to disqualify free-to-play players after the 5.3 update as they are playing the entire base game and its first expansion. They are definitely part of the community, in roulettes and other contents even with the existing restrictions.

The issue here is that after 5.4 LB census was at ~900k. If we want to consider that number legitimate; that would mean a majority of MMO-P's active playerbase is outside of LB's wide criteria meaning they are mostly F2P, sub-60s, or level 70 boosts with no activity on them.

You would be very very very hardpressed to make the claim that about 1.5 million people fit either of those three criteria since all three would be considered the lesser end of the spectrum; especially since LB estimated around 100,000 new player created which would be a decrease.

So either:
1) There was some random huge surge of players in 5.5 that wouldnt match any projection of data possible going into a 6-month major patch drought
2) MMO-P numbers are complete BS.

[Shougun]

This games population peaked at around 1.4 million some time after SHB launch, but averages a population ranging from 800k-1mil active subs.

Their supposed "daily active players" is well over double the active player count in Lucky Bancho's latest census.

Could be counting bots (and Lucky tries to doge that by putting barriers to entry on it, which would lower Lucky's, when comparing to stuff that doesn't try to account for low effort / brand new / bot accounts), for both games, when not setting up limits on what is accounted for, I'm sure that does some beautiful inflation, probably more so for WoW. That said I doubt FFXIV is beating WoW (I imagine RMT services are larger for that game, just a hunch, haven't bothered to try and quantify it though), but like in my first person, I think, if you take this which seems to be some sort of voodoo math on community engagement (maybe just reddit if I'm reading what others say), and then other stats that are more transparent / less hidden voodoo nonsense, still even, FFXIV is trending seems to be in a positive and substantial player in the market. As for people comparing back in the haydays- I doubt anything is ever going to compare to WoW back in it's prime, including WoW itself lol.

[LittleImp]

Could be counting bots, for both games I'm sure that does some beautiful inflation, probably more so for WoW. That said I doubt FFXIV is beating WoW, but like in my first person, I think, if you take this which seems to be some sort of voodoo math on community engagement (maybe just reddit if I'm reading what others say), and then other stats that are more transparent / less hidden voodoo nonsense, still even, FFXIV is trending seems to be in a positive and substantial player in the market. As for people comparing back in the haydays- I doubt anything is ever going to compare to WoW back in it's prime.

That website uses sentiment analysis to project populations, which essentially boils down to pulling google statistics and scraping what they can from social media. This is an inherently flawed approach, as evidenced by the fact that dead games with no servers will crop up with phantom populations any time an article about them appears, or there's some social media discussion about them.

The FFXIV community is hyperactive on social media, so naturally our population is significantly overrepresented in that kind of methodology.

[Puremallace]

This games population peaked at around 1.4 million some time after SHB launch, but averages a population ranging from 800k-1mil active subs.

Their supposed "daily active players" is well over double the active player count in Lucky Bancho's latest census.

So if we are counting subs do you count the people that are technically subbed to WoW but pay with a token from in game gold earned? Some people have not paid a sub in WoW for years but are counted as a sub. What is considered a sub literally means nothing these days to revenue.

Also in the original post I point out that I am sure the data has issues as the devs do not confirm any of this. The point is WoW has another MMO out there with a million or more subs actively playing challenging their supremacy as the top Themepark.

All I care about is that this puts pressure on Blizzard to stop putting out trash. We cannot have a one horse race or Square Enix will further monetize this MMO into the dirt.

[linayar]

The issue here is that after 5.4 LB census was at ~900k. If we want to consider that number legitimate; that would mean a majority of MMO-P's active playerbase is outside of LB's wide criteria meaning they are mostly F2P, sub-60s, or level 70 boosts with no activity on them.

You would be very very very hardpressed to make the claim that about 1.5 million people fit either of those three criteria since all three would be considered the lesser end of the spectrum; especially since LB estimated around 100,000 new player created which would be a decrease.

So either:
1) There was some random huge surge of players in 5.5 that wouldnt match any projection of data possible going into a 6-month major patch drought
2) MMO-P numbers are complete BS.

My point is that the "no activity" part should be the relevant factor here, not the free-to-play/sub60 part.