iLVL Sync but no level sync

[Kattakuzai]

I just wanted to suggest that we have the option to sync down item levels to run old content but retain our level 80 skills (not stats). I recently returned and just had a look at the new party menu and was excited that were was a choice to item level sync or level sync or both. But under item level sync it still syncs down our level. Would there ever be a way to sync us down without removing our skills? Not for the general duty finder of course, but as an option to tick when playing with friends? I'd rather not lose all my skills and end up pressing only 2 buttons because I want to play with friends and not stomp a dungeon for them.

[Liham]

Yes, i was going to make a suggestion but i think they know that low level duty are boring for veteran and if we had the skills from high level but just sync it will be less boring to do low level duty.
They are going to recalculate all the damage number for the next expansions toi reduce the bg numbers, lets hope it will be also the first step in making skills available through sync in low level duty :3

[Nezerius]

I'd rather not lose all my skills and end up pressing only 2 buttons because I want to play with friends and not stomp a dungeon for them.

Except you'd be stomping a dungeon for them if you did have your full lvl 80 job kit. The abilities would still have the same potencies, so even having the level appropriate stats for a dungeon would cause your dps output to be much larger than what the dungeon was balanced to.

For example, let's look at a WHM going into a lvl 50 dungeon, and the potency of dps spells available to them:
- Current system: Stone II (200 potency), Holy (140 potency AoE), and Aero II (60 potency on the initial hit + 360 potency over the course of 18 seconds).
- Full lvl 80 job kit: Glare (300 potency), Holy (140 potency AoE), Dia (120 potency on the initial hit + 600 over the course of 30 seconds), Assize (400 potency AoE on a 45 sec CD), and Afflatus Misery (900 potency AoE, 675 for secondary targets, after using 3 lilies).

Is it boring to go back to having less spells? Sure, but there's also a clear reason for it.

[ItMe]

As an option to tick when playing with friends?
That could be a cool QoL. I'd enjoy seeing that.

[Commander_Justitia]

The syncs are not the problem, the problem is that every dungeon can be played the same way. They need to be more creative with their gameplay elements, crowdcontrol (stun sleep silence) effects did matter during ARR (partially because the game was laggy).

[Liham]

Except you'd be stomping a dungeon for them if you did have your full lvl 80 job kit. The abilities would still have the same potencies, so even having the level appropriate stats for a dungeon would cause your dps output to be much larger than what the dungeon was balanced to.

For example, let's look at a WHM going into a lvl 50 dungeon, and the potency of dps spells available to them:
- Current system: Stone II (200 potency), Holy (140 potency AoE), and Aero II (60 potency on the initial hit + 360 potency over the course of 18 seconds).
- Full lvl 80 job kit: Glare (300 potency), Holy (140 potency AoE), Dia (120 potency on the initial hit + 600 over the course of 30 seconds), Assize (400 potency AoE on a 45 sec CD), and Afflatus Misery (900 potency AoE, 675 for secondary targets, after using 3 lilies).

Is it boring to go back to having less spells? Sure, but there's also a clear reason for it.

Its a question of solutions and number, and solutions i can myself find 2 (that need to be tested)

Solution 1 : Have low level version of new high level abilities

- Current system: Stone II (200 potency), Holy (140 potency AoE), and Aero II (60 potency on the initial hit + 360 potency over the course of 18 seconds).
- Full lvl 80 job kit: Glare (300 potency), Holy (140 potency AoE), Dia (120 potency on the initial hit + 600 over the course of 30 seconds), Assize (400 potency AoE on a 45 sec CD), and Afflatus Misery (900 potency AoE, 675 for secondary targets, after using 3 lilies)
- New system examplefor a level 80 : Stone II (200 potency), Holy (140 potency AoE), and Aero II (60 potency on the initial hit + 360 potency over the course of 18 seconds), "Small" Assize [at level 15] (150 potency AoE on a 45 sec CD), and "Small" Afflatus Misery [at level 30] (400 potency AoE, 200 for secondary targets, after using 3 lilies)

The "small" low level version are learn only when the high level one is learn of course.
Its true the level 80 will be able to do more damage that the level 20 (per exemple) but will that be gamebreaking ? The new high abilities are often long recast abilities and supplement abilites, the core skills are mainly here low level.
And on low level in aoe there is already big differences of DPS : the RDM does wery damage aoe from level 15 to 50 caompared to other 2.0 jobs so not sure it will be that mus


Solution 2 : Have a damage debuff on higher player to reach the dungeon level

Here its just math and it is possible no ?



Tank aggro will have to be ajusted but it seems to have already been boosted quite a lot on low level.
And there are not forced to do this for all level, especially the last ones (who are new and they may want to have incentive to play new dungeons) : but for example do the abilities sync up to level 60 or 70. Test it our and raise the cap if possible at a later time.

[ItMe]

Solution 1 : Have low level version of new high level abilities
[...]
Solution 2 : Have a damage debuff on higher player to reach the dungeon level

Here its just math and it is possible no ?

Uh... no.
If this ever could exist it would have to be a box you could check in premade parties because otherwise there's really no way to balance it.
In terms of trying fo have something like this beyond just premade parties we have two threads kicking the idea around and realizing just how impossible the math is:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-sync-system.?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...vel-Synced%21?


But to tl;dr it and signal boost one post (though I do encourage reading the threads, they're quite good):

That can not work in a balanced way. Lets use your BLM example. I get sent down to halitali in a leveling roulette on my lvl 80 BLM, and the roulette matches me with a lvl 20 THM. We get to a boss. He casts Thunder, i cast Thunder 3. Thunder 3 does the same damage per tick as Thunder(so far so good), but T3 lasts 2 ticks longer plus its initial hit is 40 potency higher AND it has a chance to proc thundercloud. You could do some math to find a balance point for the ticks and initial hit, but the fact that i get to wait 6 extra seconds before reapplying is a real advantage and if it can still proc at all(even at a reduced percentage) then the lower level caster can never catch up on damage - and thats before you account for the fact that my gear is sync-maxed and his is likely a mix of poor quality stuff that already puts him at a disadvantage. Enough DoTs, direct burn is the BLM specialty. So you nerfed my F4 to compensate. You say i can just use the old skills? Ok. Im spamming F1 for the same damage as the other guy. But no, i have 3 stacks of AF and he can only get 2 stacks(plus im running Eno and he doesnt have that yet). I can still end each round with a Despair - he doesnt have anything similar. I can pop manafont to extend a burn session, use ley lines for that sexy speed boost, drop manawall to ignore some mechanics, use xeno sharpcast triplecast and swiftcast to do damage on the run - he has swift and none of those other options. Oh, and lets not forget your umbral phase. When his mana is out he needs to use transpose and wait 7-12+ seconds before he can transpose back into his astral phase(needing to rebuild his stack). I use B3, have all my mana back in 4-8 seconds, and can F3 back over without losing my stacks. And thats just single target, we're ignoring the imbalance of an AoE pull where i can multi-dot and he cant, where i have multiple useful spells and he doesnt, and where i can still swap astral/umbral at full stacks and he is stuck with transpose.

And all that is for a DPS class, seemingly the easiest to balance. How do you propose we balance Group A having a healer who can only cure 1 and medica 1(both on GCD, both with a cast timer, and no other options) against Group B having those same options, plus stronger versions, plus 9 instant cast heal spells with varying traits(including shields, regens, aoe heals, and a full heal)? Oh, and the second groups healer has 3 AoE damage spells(one of which has an attached stun, another of which has an attached heal), and the first group has none.

Final note, i also disagree with the OPs assertion that the level sync "completely wipes out any feeling of progress". I feel like if anything, it re-asserts just how far youve come. Your character used to struggle just to do a 2 hit damage rotation. Now you have a 15 move opener sequence you do that is optimized to the nth degree. Looking back occasionally really helps that feeling of progress.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

Imagine the lv 30 drg ... got his job stone, new player and happy hes progressing.
And the lv 80 drg who queued into the dungeon shits all over him with a 3 step aoe, aoe buffs, 5 hit normal combo and stardiver.

There no possible way to keep that anywhere near balanced.

[Liham]

Syncing to level 80 is a lot, that s why i was also proposing to sync just to level 50 or 60.

Tell me which job with its level 50 abilities will break a party content level 10-49 ?

Example : I am a BLM level 74 and have totorak and i will be sync 27 with my abilities of level 50 (except Thunder 3 who will be Thunder 1).