Thread: Summoner 6.0 Rework (my reimagining)

I said it during FFXI and I'll say it hear again. The next Final Fantasy MMO should not have Summoner as a job but rather give each job it's own Eikon summon. That will fix a lot of the each we saw in FFXI and FFXIV were Summoner wasn't what the community envisioned.

In the meantime, FFXIV Summoner is what it is and removing any major aspect of the job would be just a slap in the face to the people that still enjoy playing it. There are soon to be twelve DPS jobs in the game, find the one you enjoy and run with it.

Originally Posted by Dyvid

I said it during FFXI and I'll say it hear again. The next Final Fantasy MMO should not have Summoner as a job but rather give each job it's own Eikon summon. That will fix a lot of the each we saw in FFXI and FFXIV were Summoner wasn't what the community envisioned.

To what end, though? As a DRG, does the playflow of summoning an eikon an having it battle for me remotely fit the appeal for which I would have likely chosen to become a DRG? And BLM? Bard?

If you want older-style iconic summons, then even a revamp of Limit Break to actually be interesting job-specialized mechanics would be a better fit than not only axing a mostly enjoyed job but also degrading the others' experience with shoe-horned extraneous vestiges of that job. Have SMN be the most versatile LB user of any job, able to enhance their current Egi/Summon into some grand and immediate effect. Voila.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

To what end, though? As a DRG, does the playflow of summoning an eikon an having it battle for me remotely fit the appeal for which I would have likely chosen to become a DRG? And BLM? Bard?

If you want older-style iconic summons, then even a revamp of Limit Break to actually be interesting job-specialized mechanics would be a better fit than not only axing a mostly enjoyed job but also degrading the others' experience with shoe-horned extraneous vestiges of that job. Have SMN be the most versatile LB user of any job, able to enhance their current Egi/Summon into some grand and immediate effect. Voila.

I think a battle Eikon would be way cooler than a combat chicken. Especially if we had some diversity and choice in companions.

Originally Posted by Dyvid

BLM is iconic but doesn't play like other FF games but that okay because at the end of the day it's fun.

Black Mage does a FANTASTIC job of evoking the 'fantasy' of a FF black mage, which is destroying things. While in most FF games black mages also handle offensive buffs and use elemental weaknesses, that 1:1 port doesn't matter as much as capturing what it would feel like to be a Black Mage. It and Red Mage are IMO the top two classes in capturing this 'job fantasy' and I would say Summoner is pretty low on that list, which is why there is a lot of bellyaching.

Originally Posted by Dyvid

It's also a slap in the face to people who enjoy playing FFXIV Summoner to ask for a complete redesign because it doesn't play like what you want a FF Summoner to be.

And existing Summoner is kinda a slap in the face to people who enjoy summons in FF games. Luckily, again, I think it is fairly easy to appease both camps, especially because mechanically SMN is quite well designed.

Summoner's main problem is that the visuals of the Job and the way abilities are 'sold' is, for lack of a better phrase, GOD AWFUL. An Egi's enkindle attack is less visually flashy than flipping SCHs Art of War, and when you activate it you don't really... do anything. Despite it being a nice OGCD and one of your capstones it just... kinda falls flat, and unlike some other capstones that are very 'potency based' they aren't doing anything so bonkers mechanically that carries the ability.

Mechanically I think SMN, again, secretly does a pretty good job of being a summoner despite the pet, mainly, again, in the way trance/demi rotations cause you to feel like your playing with a private limit break/summon gauge. That doesn't really need to be touched, though again I am not sure egis are long for this world.

The issue is that A: The Egi's visuals and combat animations are bad, and B: They are very seperate from your character, leading to you feeling like your just casting Ruin and poison spells while your summon does its own thing.

This is not a hard problem to fix. Again, just make Egi assault and Enkindle more visually linked to your character and make the Egi become more visually impressive when you cast it. People are asking for a SMN rework because they can spot the problem (Egis don't feel good or summonery) but are imagining it as a potency problem rather than a visuals/gamefeel issue.

In XIV 'selling' the attack matters more for the job fantasy in a lot of ways, part of why Bloodletter feels more 'impactful' than a rando dancer attack despite the fact the dancer attack being more potency is Bloodletter really lets you know through your character's actions and the animation its a big deal despite a bad potency. Part of why MNK feels so bad is that it depends mostly on basic attack GCD animations. A little TLC for SMN's animations without touching a single thing about its mechanics would probably do a lot to make everyone happy, SMN mains and Summoner lovers.

Originally Posted by Dyvid

Well, in relation to a brand new MMO it could some as simple as a timer to something as complex as a limit break. It wouldn't be a pet, but a spell because that is what most people envision when they think of summons. The summon fits the job; BRD could have Siren, BLM could be Diablos, WHM Seraph.

Again, though, if you summon Siren in your system, you are not playing a Summoner, you are playing a Bard.

As a Bard, do you want anything to do with summoning Siren, let alone any summoning whatsoever?

As a BLM, do you want anything to do with summoning Diablos?

As a WHM, do you want anything to do with summoning (SCH's latest pet) Seraph?

They have nothing to do with those job kit's intended playflows or themes, and yet would most definitely siphon from their budgets in terms of available buttons and capacity.

Why? Why would you plague every job with the abandoned viscera of another?