How will Endwalker make crafting more of a brain dead activity like Shadowbringers?

[Jojoya]

Nothing you said would be difficult or extremely time consuming so I don't know what this would change. It really wouldn't change anything.

Step 1. Level to 80
Step 2. Complete Custom Deliveries and Leve Quests for Scrip Gear
Step 3. Craft a set of crafter gear and pentameld it
Step 4. Craft this final set that you mentioned that's market prohibited.

It would not be anymore difficult than that.

What you're describing seems a lot like the Skysteel tools which are already in the game.

Step 4 would be an obstacle for any crafter that relies on macros created by others since Plastics specified Expert. It would just need to be Resplendent Expert difficulty instead of Skybuilder.

Resplendent itself failed because they chose an excessively punishing grind and made the reward just another shiny tool we weren't going to use. The process wasn't fun, the reward was lackluster - who was going to bother unless all they wanted was bragging rights for something everyone else felt was a waste of time?

[Plastics]

Nothing you said would be difficult or extremely time consuming so I don't know what this would change. It really wouldn't change anything.

Step 1. Level to 80
Step 2. Complete Custom Deliveries and Leve Quests for Scrip Gear
Step 3. Craft a set of crafter gear and pentameld it
Step 4. Craft this final set that you mentioned that's market prohibited.

It would not be anymore difficult than that.

What you're describing seems a lot like the Skysteel tools which are already in the game.

Every patch you'd need to craft your own gear which provides a barrier. Right now you can buy a set and do some basic melds and then start flooding the market. To make a comparison to combat content, few (if any?) people are going to clear savage in lightly melded crafted gear. People who level them up late in the expansion would have to use scrip gear as a catch up.

As for Skysteel, they provide no benefit. They're basically equivalent to Aesthete's, but much harder to make than Aesthete's. Same with Resplendent. That's the issue -- they're not worth doing, except as glam, and you can do that in a later expansion. That's why having crafts for things people want be hard experts that are made easier with the expert crafted set, in addition to glam, would provide an actual reason to do them. It would also be there for people who want to compete in whatever expert competition they're going to replace Ishgard with.

[NanaWiloh]

Hardcore crafter's: Screw Casual crafter's they deserve no end game
Casual crafter's: Screw hardcore crafter's they deserve no end game

This all I see from this community. Nothing but selfishness and greed driving everyone.

To hardcore:
Not everyone likes difficult crafts.
Not everyone is interested in making gil.
Not all end game crafting needs to a be a brain melting experience.

To Casual:
There are players who like difficult crafts.
There are players who like making millions of gil off crafting.
Not all end game crafting needs to be a snooze fest.

Tired of thinking this community can find any middle ground. Is the idea of both sides having a end game of their own that Scary and insulting to both sides?
Thread Cammie made a year ago it was put forth why not have master recipes aimed at the general player base with Experts recipes being hard and full of stuff people would want but would not really be need to be a successful crafter.

[Illmaeran]

To hardcore:
Not everyone likes difficult crafts.
Not everyone is interested in making gil.
Not all end game crafting needs to a be a brain melting experience.

To Casual:
There are players who like difficult crafts.
There are players who like making millions of gil off crafting.
Not all end game crafting needs to be a snooze fest.

Well said! It would be great to see some nosebleed-high-end gear available via crafting that actually takes a lot of thought, consideration, and preparation. Something like the top 5.0% of recipes or such. The issue, I believe, is balance and value to the community as a whole; if the best or near-best PVE gear in the game at any given time is only available via crafting, that would upset the high-end PVErs. Having such high-end items requiring mats obtainable only in said super-high-end content would definitely provide challenge/prestige to those crafting them, but may still piss off the people who earned the materials since they don't get the shiny item right away. I can't blame them for this, as much as I wish it weren't the case.

Aside from that, let we casuals/dabblers have our mindless mass market material making macros. Sometimes it's fun to make some nice furniture without having to think about hitting the marks just right to get a full progress bar.

[Illmaeran]

What made crafting fun to each of us in the first place?
What changes would make it fun again for those who no longer find it fun?
Are expectations unrealistic because the player base is growing in size? More players naturally leads to more getting into the content along with more competition.

1. Originally it was the ability to make and repair 100% of my own gear when leveling. After that it was making enough Gil to buy a house, then make everything I could to decorate it with buying as little as possible. After that it was realizing that I'm not an endgame raider and gathering/crafting is an enjoyable way to spend time after finishing story arcs.

Yes, making money was always part of that, without question. It's the rare individual that gets into gathering and/or crafting in a more than passing fashion without one of their goals being making money. By its nature, gathering and crafting are about providing products to people which normally means taking part of an economy.

2. What changes would make it fun again? I got tired of the whole timed-node thing in HW into early SB and took a break from the game because of it. I'm not sure if they've actually changed things or if it's just my perception, but whatever it is that they changed has made gathering and making Collectibles enjoyable again. Do I sometimes rue the fact that crafting is more accessible now than it once was? Sure, it's nice to be a part of a smaller community of suppliers that makes more money for our effort. I don't begrudge the people who've gotten into crafting because of the changes though, they're entitled to enjoying the game they pay for as much as the rest of us.

What I'd LOVE to see changed is retainers not bringing back random high-value items that used to be craftable only. This, more than anything, is what I believe to be the cause of declining market prices. With tens of players getting things from their retainers that have a material cost in the tens of thousands and selling them for thousands because their "free" has really imbalanced thing.

As you've said before, they need to add high-value and/or uncommon items that are, and always will be, obtainable *only through crafting*. Give us the ability to make more mounts, Triple Triad cards, pets, awesome furnishings, and UPGRADE RAID GEAR that require increasing levels of gear/melding and attention when crafting (aka, not macro-able) so we have skills that are valuable to every player at all levels of the game.

3. I don't think our collective expectations are unreasonable. We do have to adjust to the increased competition and dropping prices, but we'll always be able to have fun crafting and will usually make money off it. That may require gathering and processing our own materials rather than buying stuff of the MB, but so be it if that's the case.

[Starkman]

As a new crafter to be, do we know anything yet about changes to be made to crafting in the three (or four) campaigns? I mean, I'm wondering now if I should wait to even get started crafting in ARR. Thanks.

[Jojoya]

As a new crafter to be, do we know anything yet about changes to be made to crafting in the three (or four) campaigns? I mean, I'm wondering now if I should wait to even get started crafting in ARR. Thanks.

They haven't given us specifics about crafting changes yet (those will be discussed in the November Live Letter) though they probably would have at least briefly mentioned any major changes in the last Live Letter if there were going to be any. I expect basic leveling and recipe acquisition to remain the same as it is now.

If you're hoping they're going to add crafting boost potions to Mogstation, or break up crafting up like WoW recently did, it's highly unlikely.

It's better to start now if you have the time available and plan to craft for profit. That way you'll have everything to 80 so you only have to worry about leveling 81-90 once Endwalker is released.

[Starkman]

Hey, thanks for the reply. No, wasn't going for any boosts, just gp info. Thanks again.

[frostmagemari]

Honestly, what i would prefer for my crafting endgame wishlist would be to remove RNG element on skills entirely (and make the cost something to match). Next would be to start introducing additional effects during crafting aside from the good/excellent/poor (and just remove the expert crafter's stuff, because that's a dumb style of RNG).

What i mean is, just as examples...
At white quality crafts.. keep it to just the good/excellent/poor
at green quality crafts.. introduce a status that makes touches and synthesis ignore any modifiers (like inner quiet and veneration,etc), and doesn't go away until you purge it with an action (and maybe prevents it for minimum 8 steps or something)
at higher quality crafts.. introduce a new status, but this one makes your CP costs double, and like the previous, doesn't go away until you purge it
at excellent quality crafts.. introduce a final one that makes your abilities cost double durability, and like the previous, needs to be purged.

Bottom line for me is, if there's going to be RNG, don't make it a necessity that i get the right RNG when i need it; but rather, give me RNG in the form of obstacles that i have to deal with to get past. It'd also make the macros start becoming untenable in the higher levels. Is it perfect? No, but nothing ever will be.. but i think it'd make higher end crafts more of a rarity on the market and increase the worth of the items that people do craft, but it wouldn't make crafting an impossible field for players to get into.