How will Endwalker make crafting more of a brain dead activity like Shadowbringers?

[CrayonsAndPaint]

We all know each and every expansion they dumb down crafting mechanics further and further to make it easier for BOTS to spam the market with gear and weapons. We also know they add in market damaging additions once in awhile, such as World Visit and Data Center visit.

So I’m just wondering, how will they dumb down Endwalker’s crafting system even more than Shadowbringers? And make it to where crafting bots can spam the market even worse than they already have? This isn’t even a salt thread, I’m just expecting it at this point.

[Shadygrove]

It isn't only bots ...

Its easy* as you said. Anyone and their pet chocobo can get to all 80s. There are macros, we all use them too. People who wouldn't try to craft for gil in previous expansions are competing with us now.

I expect that they will throw hard core crafters a bone. I suspect it will involve expert recipes.

They will give us new skills and prune older ones. A few might be upgraded.

*Took an alt 1 - 50.... Finish your first guild quest and you are L3.

[Jojoya]

We don't know what their thoughts are on the outcome of the sweeping changes made this expansion. Without knowing their feelings, it's hard to say what they might choose to do.

Skill changes are a no-brainer because we've always gotten skill changes.

It should be easy to level any class so I don't see that changing.

What should be difficult is the end game crafting. I think they realized they had gone too far because the 5.4 recipes were a definite step up in difficulty compared to other Master recipes earlier in the expansion. Hopefully they push the difficulty back up another notch in Endwalker so macros aren't a reliable tool for HQ even if starting from mostly HQ materials. HQ on an end game craft should mean something; that in turn gives some meaning back to NQ crafts instead of them being viewed as useless except for glamour.

Expert isn't much of a bone when the rewards don't compensate adequately for the time and effort. I don't see raiders being asked to spend over 600 hours to get a single mount. Why did SE decide to ask that sort time investment from crafters/gatherers? Unless there's a major change to the reward structure, I expect Expert to get a hardcore ignore next expansion.

[Vidu]

Expert isn't much of a bone when the rewards don't compensate adequately for the time and effort. I don't see raiders being asked to spend over 600 hours to get a single mount. Why did SE decide to ask that sort time investment from crafters/gatherers? Unless there's a major change to the reward structure, I expect Expert to get a hardcore ignore next expansion.

While I dont disagree with you here (I'm in this constant state of "I kinda want the flying dino..." and "Nope, my time is way to valuable for that"), there are other mounts in the game that are acquired by DoW/M that take an awefully long grind - Astrope, Hunt-Tiger, to an extend the tank- and PvP-achievment-mounts (though those are obviously a level down). So its not necessarily "raiders" being asked to spent a lot of time getting a mount, but definitly people playing as DoW/M.

(I'm also consoling myself with the thought that one doesnt grind it out only for one mount, but gets scrips and scratch cards along the way... by now I almost feel like selling items bought with skybuilder scrips is more profitable than normal endgame crafting - probably not true, but feels like it for sure...)

[dezzmont]

by now I almost feel like selling items bought with skybuilder scrips is more profitable than normal endgame crafting - probably not true, but feels like it for sure...)

It depends on what you are doing and what server/server cluster you are on, but in general its good to mix up what you are doing anyway because market volume for any area is limited. Skybuilder's stuff is great 'filler' stuff that sells quickly for the most part, and has lots of in demand consumables that aren't glam specific so there is generally more demand.

Its similar to the food market in a lot of ways in that your probably not making your bread and butter sales through it but once you get a certain amount of stock your not making money faster on 'big ticket' items so you need to transition to something people buy in a constant stream.

[Nabril]

Why don't you provide us with your solution instead of simply complaining?

Do you want it to be like savage content where you have 0.5 seconds to push the next button determined randomly before the whole process fails and you lose all those rare ingredients?

What's your solution?

[Nabril]

It isn't only bots ...

Its easy* as you said. Anyone and their pet chocobo can get to all 80s. There are macros, we all use them too. People who wouldn't try to craft for gil in previous expansions are competing with us now.

I expect that they will throw hard core crafters a bone. I suspect it will involve expert recipes.

They will give us new skills and prune older ones. A few might be upgraded.

*Took an alt 1 - 50.... Finish your first guild quest and you are L3.

I'm confused... what about it was difficult in the earlier versions? Hell, learning the rotation for me was as simple as grabbing a macro, reverse engineering it, and figuring it out. It literally took me 15 minutes to learn what used to be end-game crafting. Crafting is not a badge of honor. You're not savage or EX raiders just because you can craft. You don't get put on the same level.

Want crafting to be a challenge? Tell SE to get rid of crafting pentamelds. That's right... really step up and drop those overmelds and THEN craft end game gear.

I honestly don't know why "elite" crafters think they're on some extra elite plane because they craft. They have always had an easy time crafting because pentamelding makes it all effortless. Hell, I'm using last season's crafting gear, but because I pentamelded, even I can do end-level crafting. That's how easy overmelding makes things. Drop the overmeld or accept that crafting takes zero skill and zero HQ materials.

[Nabril]

We don't know what their thoughts are on the outcome of the sweeping changes made this expansion. Without knowing their feelings, it's hard to say what they might choose to do.

Skill changes are a no-brainer because we've always gotten skill changes.

It should be easy to level any class so I don't see that changing.

What should be difficult is the end game crafting. I think they realized they had gone too far because the 5.4 recipes were a definite step up in difficulty compared to other Master recipes earlier in the expansion. Hopefully they push the difficulty back up another notch in Endwalker so macros aren't a reliable tool for HQ even if starting from mostly HQ materials. HQ on an end game craft should mean something; that in turn gives some meaning back to NQ crafts instead of them being viewed as useless except for glamour.

Expert isn't much of a bone when the rewards don't compensate adequately for the time and effort. I don't see raiders being asked to spend over 600 hours to get a single mount. Why did SE decide to ask that sort time investment from crafters/gatherers? Unless there's a major change to the reward structure, I expect Expert to get a hardcore ignore next expansion.

It's pentamelding. That's what needs to disappear in order for endgame crafting to always require HQ materials.

[Jojoya]

It's pentamelding. That's what needs to disappear in order for endgame crafting to always require HQ materials.

And once we have all HQ materials, we're right back to using macros to get a guaranteed result so there's no difficulty.

If you want to get rid of pentamelding then SE probably should get rid of HQ materials. foods and teas/syrups as well since those likewise make it easier. Otherwise, one of my alts in all scrip gear (so no melds at all) will keep cranking out HQ Exarchic gear when I'm in the mood to make it on her instead of my main. I don't even need all HQ materials. I can skip one or two depending on the number needed for the craft to get 100% guaranteed, fewer if I'm willing to take a chance on getting Good/Excellent procs.

Crafting is just a math puzzle. If you can do the math, or have a tool like Teamcraft that can do it for you, you can find a best solution or even multiple solutions. Once you've got your solution, the difficulty ceases to exist.

To truly make crafting difficulty, SE would have to increase the progress/quality requirments to the point where getting 100% quality is impossible even with all the things I listed. Would it stay satisfying as difficult content when the "win" condition is reliant solely on RNG no matter how skilled at math you are??

[Nabril]

And once we have all HQ materials, we're right back to using macros to get a guaranteed result so there's no difficulty.

If you want to get rid of pentamelding then SE probably should get rid of HQ materials. foods and teas/syrups as well since those likewise make it easier. Otherwise, one of my alts in all scrip gear (so no melds at all) will keep cranking out HQ Exarchic gear when I'm in the mood to make it on her instead of my main. I don't even need all HQ materials. I can skip one or two depending on the number needed for the craft to get 100% guaranteed, fewer if I'm willing to take a chance on getting Good/Excellent procs.

Crafting is just a math puzzle. If you can do the math, or have a tool like Teamcraft that can do it for you, you can find a best solution or even multiple solutions. Once you've got your solution, the difficulty ceases to exist.

To truly make crafting difficulty, SE would have to increase the progress/quality requirments to the point where getting 100% quality is impossible even with all the things I listed. Would it stay satisfying as difficult content when the "win" condition is reliant solely on RNG no matter how skilled at math you are??

I just don't know why so many people are asking for "skill" in end game crafting. It's a ridiculous request. "Too many people are crafting!" so what? Crafting has never been difficult and will never be difficult. Unless they add in a ton of RNG and put in a timer so that you have almost no time at all before you have to choose the next proper action in an ever changing sequence of actions before the entire process fails, there will not be any difficulty in crafting. This game has Savage and EX content. That is where the difficulty lies.

Removing the ability to ever get 100% quality doesn't make crafting difficult. It only makes it random. You do the best you can and then rely on RNG. That's not skill or difficulty. That's simply RNG.

I'm beginning to think crafters have forgotten the entire meaning behind the word "skill". It does not mean RNG.