Scholar has the worst design of any job in the game, and here's why.

[FusionSamurai]

Lilies are heals though. Mobility tools are things like Lightspeed, Malefic, Triplecast, instant damage GCD's, leaps, teleports and so on. WHM burning it's lilies to move are one of the reasons it has an identity of either being carried by the coheal on healing just to do below average rdps, or doing poor dps just to heal well.

I'll never understand WHM's identity of "strong GCD based heals". All it has over the other healers is Cure III which has a terrible range and is rarely needed. That's it. It's entire "GCD identity" is built on one niche and unnecessary heal. All the other heals are overpriced copies of Diurnal AST heals and lilies are burnt on moving or intermissions and inferior to AST/SCH's oGCD heals.

Lilies are not just heals. Lilies serve 3 purposes, they are used to move, they are used to weave because they are instant, and they are used to heal. WHM wants to use lilies to cover all three at once optimally. You can use lilies at max HP to move, because it gives you some damage return, and the potency return is higher than that of clipping your Dia. Ideally, you let your party stay lower on HP so that you can get some healing when you need to move. If your cohealer wants to be a heal bot that doesn't let you do that, then so be it, they can waste their resources for you playing correctly.

WHM's identity is literally its GCDs. WHM doesn't have the weaving space to properly use oGCD heals, and its entire design forces you to use GCDs. Its whole design is around using GCDs to heal, with things such as plenary rewarding you for doing them.

Ehhhhh, was it though? It was a huge problem to be certain. I think another major contributor was the fact that Diurnal AST was "WHM...but better!" Its heals were nearly the same potency, sometimes even higher. Better mobility. Stronger rDPS. Actual utility. Especially after the Malefic buff, there was no reason to take a WHM. It brought nothing to the table AST couldn't do better.

Poor mobility doesn't help there, but having no strengths that the other two healers can't do easier and cheaper, while being totally unable to do several of the things they're capable of... that's a nasty weakness.

Yes, it was. WHM reached the dumpster last expansion after repeated AST buffs, but it was also in a horrible tier for the class design wise. In E9s-E12s you had to deal with the likes of Pantokrator, Hello World, etc. WHM had no options to cover that movement, which severely hurt its DPS. This stacked on top of it not having as good rdps anyway made is compound its weakness.

[Absurdity]

I just want to point out that even the most efficient, highest RDPS playres out there have an overheal % of around 20%.

Not really a surprise there, avoiding overhealing completely is pretty much impossible. Be it HoT effects ticking past max hp or your direct heals simply healing more than needed, you will always have "some" overhealing.

[Rilifane]

Lilies are not just heals. Lilies serve 3 purposes, they are used to move, they are used to weave because they are instant, and they are used to heal. WHM wants to use lilies to cover all three at once optimally. You can use lilies at max HP to move, because it gives you some damage return, and the potency return is higher than that of clipping your Dia. Ideally, you let your party stay lower on HP so that you can get some healing when you need to move. If your cohealer wants to be a heal bot that doesn't let you do that, then so be it, they can waste their resources for you playing correctly.

WHM's identity is literally its GCDs. WHM doesn't have the weaving space to properly use oGCD heals, and its entire design forces you to use GCDs. Its whole design is around using GCDs to heal, with things such as plenary rewarding you for doing them.

You missed the point. We all know that Lilies aren't just for healing like Medica II. But that's exactly the problem.
WHM has to use limited healing tools regardless of the situation to move OR weave and it's still a dps loss. SCH needs to use AF charges for dps neutral weaving/ moving but they have more per minute AND more healing tools that aren't tied to AF. AST LS was a MP tool before 5.3, it got changed though and now you're completely free to use delay it as much as you want for back to back mechanics, escpecially since you're not a card machine gun at the 3min marks anymore.

And healbotting isn't even the only reason why Lily healing during movement can be completely wasted. Boss design also plays a huge part. You can have a whole party plan everything around their WHM and they will still heal signifcantly less while overhealing more, meaning they are prone to wasting healing but not because they are a healing powerhouse that can throw out free heal like candy without any negative side effect. And that is with planning their movement and tools around one class.

And funny that you mention PI. It needs to be weaved before your GCD heals. And to weave it you either need a really opportune natural Dia refresh or - exactly, a Lily. That thing it's supposed to buff.

I just want to point out that even the most efficient, highest RDPS playres out there have an overheal % of around 20%.

Obviously.
Star and Assize are used on CD, Fairy keeps healing. Add some crit heals here and that last regen tick that wasn't even neccessary there and you have overheal even with a team of dedicated "How low can we go?" green dps. Plus sometimes there is the situation of one tool not being enough but two being too much.

[GrimGale]

Wait, what does clipping mean?

I always thought "clipping" meant to use too many oGCDs within a GCD spaces causing the global cooldown to be delayed, which misaligned the rotations after cummulative delays.

And here it's used to refer to the act of refreshing Dia's dot before it has run out.

Sorry, out of place question. I just don't understand when people refer to WHM's clipping issue.

[Shurrikhan]

Wait, what does clipping mean?

Clipping refers to any things which would occupy or consume a mutually exclusive resource, be that time, space, or whatever else, overlapping.

Both for oGCDs and DoTs/HoTs, that resource is time. If you place two casts of a 30s DoT less than 30s apart, they clip. If you place 3 oGCDs at a minimum of .6s (and twice one's ping after the first) uptime each into an opening of only at most 1.9 seconds, it will most likely clip.

Clipping a DoT is to use it short of its full or roll-over-capable span. Clipping an (o)GCD is to use it outside of sufficient space or (time) window of allowance. But they're ultimately the same concept.

[GrimGale]

Clipping refers to any things which would occupy or consume a mutually exclusive resource, be that time, space, or whatever else, overlapping.

Both for oGCDs and DoTs/HoTs, that resource is time. If you place two casts of a 30s DoT less than 30s apart, they clip. If you place 3 oGCDs at a minimum of .6s (and twice one's ping after the first) uptime each into an opening of only at most 1.9 seconds, it will most likely clip.

Clipping a DoT is to use it short of its full or roll-over-capable span. Clipping an (o)GCD is to use it outside of sufficient space or (time) window of allowance. But they're ultimately the same concept.

Okay I get it, but then when people refer to WHM "clipping problem" are they referring to clipping a dot, or clipping GCDs?

[Rilifane]

Okay I get it, but then when people refer to WHM "clipping problem" are they referring to clipping a dot, or clipping GCDs?

Both.
Because of the very limited weaving spaces and mobility, you often end up clipping Dia as a crutch. Takes a very coordinated party, optimized mapping and good co heal to not clip Dia.

[Liam_Harper]

Lilies are not just heals. Lilies serve 3 purposes, they are used to move, they are used to weave because they are instant, and they are used to heal.

That's why it's terrible design. You can't roll movement, healing and weave all into a single button you only get once every 30 sec and call it great. Even with using all your lilies to move, WHM has less weave/mobility than BLM.

And if the coheal is sniping heals unnecessarily such that any mobility-centric Lily cast would amount to overhealing, that's their problem.

And here's the flaw. Movement lilies are tied to mechanics that require you to move, not carefully optimized player mapping. You can't choose when mechanics happen. If a move lily or Assize lines up before the next raidwide and saves a co-heal GCD then great, but you can't guarantee it. Movement lilies just aren't a reliable source of healing. Also no AST/SCH is going to pass on placing Star or using oGCD's at the perfect timing where they'll come back off cd for the next mechanic just because it will make the WHM's next noodle rapture overheal. But unlike AST/SCH the WHM can't then hold that lily or Assize because the healing is now taken care of. They have to move, or have to use Assize. It's absolutely the WHM's problem.

SCH/AST are about playing to your strengths, you have full control over your oGCD's and can map and optimize them. WHM is about trying to mitigate your weaknesses, you have little control of when you are forced to move or Assize comes off cd and playing well is about trying to squeeze some multi purpose use from your abilities ...which still results in both mediocre healing and the lowest rdps of the 3 healers.

WHM's identity is literally its GCDs. WHM doesn't have the weaving space to properly use oGCD heals, and its entire design forces you to use GCDs. Its whole design is around using GCDs to heal, with things such as plenary rewarding you for doing them.

I don't understand where this identity comes from. The only GCD WHM has over the other healers is Cure III. That's it. The niche heal with terrible range that only sees use in a tiny handful of situations during prog. Every other hardcast GCD is a more expensive version of Diurnal AST heals. Lilies are the only non-hardcast raidwide heals WHM has but are inferior to AST/SCH's amazing oGCD kits.

So WHM's entire "GCD identity" is the niche Cure III - plenary - Thin Air overheal combo that isn't needed anywhere in the entire game. How is that not a joke?

[GrimGale]

Both.
Because of the very limited weaving spaces and mobility, you often end up clipping Dia as a crutch. Takes a very coordinated party, optimized mapping and good co heal to not clip Dia.

So to create weaving space that doesn't force you to reapply Dia you could have an equivalent to Ruin II, right? Fluid Aura as a DPS spell, for example.

Where does WHM have a problem with oGCDs clipping the GCD?

[Semirhage]

So to create weaving space that doesn't force you to reapply Dia you could have an equivalent to Ruin II, right? Fluid Aura as a DPS spell, for example.

Where does WHM have a problem with oGCDs clipping the GCD?

You have to use Assize but Dia is already ticking. Do you have a lily available? If you just refreshed Dia a short time ago, it might be less of a loss to just Glare -> Assize -> Glare. Which feels like hot garbage, but it's not like you have much else.

Yes, it was. WHM reached the dumpster last expansion after repeated AST buffs, but it was also in a horrible tier for the class design wise. In E9s-E12s you had to deal with the likes of Pantokrator, Hello World, etc. WHM had no options to cover that movement, which severely hurt its DPS. This stacked on top of it not having as good rdps anyway made is compound its weakness.

And what about the point that WHM was incapable of a whole list of things the other two healers could do, while the other two could pretty easily do anything WHM could? Mobility was *an* issue. The competition being overpowered masters of free healing, damage, and utility that WHM couldn't hope to match I'd think is a far more fundamental issue than just movement options.