Scholar has the worst design of any job in the game, and here's why.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

I wouldnt consider playing with a handful of PvE Skills in a PvP mode a fun activity on the long run (can be said for any Job design in PvP). I mean, it's funny in a morbid kind of way, but sooner or later, you can't help but feel angry and sorry for it, provided you truly care about this kind of stuff.

Why would I feel angry or sorry about it? I am all for having the need for less actions in the long haul. I am all for the consolidation of combos and spells into 1 button so that it can pave the way for more cooldowns being added without having to cull already existing actions or taking an action, renaming it and then re-adding it at higher levels and calling it a new ability. Hello Divine Seal-I mean Largesse-I mean Temperance. A lot of jobs are in danger of action culling and taking portions of their PvP counterparts and giving it to their PvE versions would prevent action culling from occurring. I would even argue that all jobs's PvP versions have more fluid gameplay than their PvE versions, especially the likes of Summoner.

[Sebazy]

I’ve honestly been having more fun ‘healing’ Bozja content as a dancer using actions than I’ve had healing Savage in years. It’s just depressing at this point

[Anhra]

Why would I feel angry or sorry about it? I am all for having the need for less actions in the long haul. I am all for the consolidation of combos and spells into 1 button so that it can pave the way for more cooldowns being added without having to cull already existing actions or taking an action, renaming it and then re-adding it at higher levels and calling it a new ability. Hello Divine Seal-I mean Largesse-I mean Temperance. A lot of jobs are in danger of action culling and taking portions of their PvP counterparts and giving it to their PvE versions would prevent action culling from occurring. I would even argue that all jobs's PvP versions have more fluid gameplay than their PvE versions, especially the likes of Summoner.

This only shows how little you care and know about PvP in MMORPGs. While the single button Rotation by itself isn't a bad idea, the fact that every single Job in PvP is terrible designed (and having way too few Skills both in number and usefulness) still remains.

But i do agree that some of the PvP Skills would be a good addition to PvE, because of the way they are designed.

[Truen]

This only shows how little you care and know about PvP in MMORPGs. While the single button Rotation by itself isn't a bad idea, the fact that every single Job in PvP is terrible designed (and having way too few Skills both in number and usefulness) still remains.

But I do agree that some of the PvP Skills would be a good addition to PvE, because of the way they are designed.

Sorry, I think we actually agree on most issues --but I'll have to absolutely disagree that single-button rotations are in fact a bad idea. I used to love the SCH. I mean, it was my favorite job--hands down. But, now it's absolutely horrible to play. Yoshi's vision of pure healers ruined it by stripping away my dps rotations.

[GrimGale]

Sorry, I think we actually agree on most issues --but I'll have to absolutely disagree that single-button rotations are in fact a bad idea. I used to love the SCH. I mean, it was my favorite job--hands down. But, now it's absolutely horrible to play. Yoshi's vision of pure healers ruined it by stripping away my dps rotations.

Wait, are they or are they not a bad idea?

[Shurrikhan]

This only shows how little you care and know about PvP in MMORPGs. While the single button Rotation by itself isn't a bad idea, the fact that every single Job in PvP is terrible designed (and having way too few Skills both in number and usefulness) still remains.

But i do agree that some of the PvP Skills would be a good addition to PvE, because of the way they are designed.

Can we at least agree that there is (A) too much bloat (or, not enough density in meaningful-decisions-possible-per-button-spent) and (B) that there may be some place for dynamic actions, such as in GNB's Continuation, or possibly even Gnashing Fang -> Savage Claw -> Wicked Talon?

Tbf, I'm right with you on not liking the 1-button PvP combos, but imagine a more geometric progression: What if, for example, you had 5 fully valid (even if somewhat situational) decisions in every given GCD, rather than current situation of, say, having a meaningful GCD decision to make more often than just once or twice per 10 DRG GCDs or 3 NIN GCDs, etc.?

Heck, imagine a SAM, for instance, with a single combo-ending button/spender, but three dynamic action paths (Setsu, Getsu, and Ka), which can themselves be intermixed (A, B, C, AA, AB, AC, BA, BB, BC, CA, BB, CC, AAA, AAB, AAC, ABA... etc., etc.). Now, that would obviously be way too much for the average player, but just look at the density available by just moving the point of choice up from the 2nd to 1st GCD and not locking in the 3rd for 67% of all paths.

[Kabooa]

Can we at least agree that there is (A) too much bloat (or, not enough density in meaningful-decisions-possible-per-button-spent) and (B) that there may be some place for dynamic actions, such as in GNB's Continuation, or possibly even Gnashing Fang -> Savage Claw -> Wicked Talon?

I don't generally judge something by the action count so much as the decision count.

It's easy to look at a job that has like 24 different sources of damage and go "That's complex!" but division of damage and the division of decisions involved are not the same thing. Blm's basically got 8 damage actions, but no class has it beat on the moment to moment, and with any luck, it won't change in Endwalker.

This is my primary issue with the weaponskill classes. You got like 12 different weapon skills on a class, but really only one decision regarding them. Something like 50% of Dragoon's action count is dedicated to 1 single flowing decision because you simply cannot do it any other way. Thankfully it has one of the more interesting OGCD kits to supplement that, but this doesn't stop it from taking up half of the button budget.

With Gunbreaker specifically, yes. Ideally, it'd be an option, for those who think "Spamming 1 is boring" but think pressing 2 3 after it ad nauseum is an expression of high end play.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't generally judge something by the action count so much as the decision count.

It's easy to look at a job that has like 24 different sources of damage and go "That's complex!" but division of damage and the division of decisions involved are not the same thing. Blm's basically got 8 damage actions, but no class has it beat on the moment to moment, and with any luck, it won't change in Endwalker.

This is my primary issue with the weaponskill classes. You got like 12 different weapon skills on a class, but really only one decision regarding them. Something like 50% of Dragoon's action count is dedicated to 1 single flowing decision because you simply cannot do it any other way. Thankfully it has one of the more interesting OGCD kits to supplement that, but this doesn't stop it from taking up half of the button budget.

With Gunbreaker specifically, yes. Ideally, it'd be an option, for those who think "Spamming 1 is boring" but think pressing 2 3 after it ad nauseum is an expression of high end play.

Yep. My main alt (who I've grown more attached to than this char since late StB) is centered in Maiming/Fending, and damn does it hurt to look at all those DRG buttons and realize they boil down to 2 choices:

• there's a single two-choice decision to make in the first of 10 GCDs (to ST or AoE) and
• occasionally another single two-choice decision once every 10 GCDs to make it regards to whether to skip over my (de)buff combo in favor of direct damage or to maintain Chaos Thrust's DoT across 2-3 targets.

That's it. That's my GCD depth. 2 decisions per 10 GCDs, which themselves require 7 buttons. Yes, I still find it more enjoyable than my former gutted-and-hallowed mains in MNK, NIN, and MCH, but damn does that hurt.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

I used to love the SCH. I mean, it was my favorite job--hands down. But, now it's absolutely horrible to play. Yoshi's vision of pure healers ruined it by stripping away my dps rotations.

Don't worry. You'll be getting Sage in November and judging by how Bard was stripped of it's supportive kit to give it to Dancer it'll probably be the exact same way with Scholar and Sage. The devs have been steadily removing the thousands of damaging spells and DoTs from Scholar and will be giving them all to Sage. History tends to repeat itself after all. And seeing as they had slides saying Sage buffs its "own" dps you can almost guarantee it'll have more than just 2 dps spells/abilities.

[Imora]

I get not liking one button dps spam on healers but i really don't want a proper rotation. I tend to have enough on my plate.

And I'm still trying to find a simple DPS job that doesn't involve 500 buttons. Got dancer to 80 but looking to do something else and i really dislike ogcd management. Working rdm atm and i keep forgetting my CDs.

Oye.

Doesn't help I'm slow with hotbar swapping on a controller.