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  1. #1
    Player KizuyaKatogami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    3,472
    Character
    Kizuya Katogami
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 81
    Could someone explain to me their whole clipping argument? Literally almost every single piece of gear in this game clips in some way or form. At first they added holes for miqote tails in glams but then at some point just said screw it. 99% of hairstyles clip through headpieces or the ears just completely disappear. So...why is clipping for Viera an argument when it’s no different than the huge clipping issues we already have? As far as the whole development cost things goes...i genuinely don’t see how much more they can cut development costs seeing how much content we lost this expansion. Are we going to lose more in 6.0 as well?
    (12)

  2. #2
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,163
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami View Post
    Could someone explain to me their whole clipping argument?
    He does say "clipping or other errors" which suggests there more to it. Maybe things interact in some strange way behind the scenes.

    I also suspect the clipping could be a lot more glaring than it is for Au Ra horns. At least those emerge where ears would be on other races.
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player
    Eldevern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,009
    Character
    R'lileen Min'enoth
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 80
    The real reason is probably both the engine and the standard meshes are still the ones from the 1.0 with better shades. They probably think the extra work that compatibility needs doesn't worth it unless they update both the meshes and the engine. If they plan to make the game runs ten years more (at least) as some other editors, they will do an update, but most likely not before the 7.0 or 8.0... Unless they plan a new generation MMO to replace both FFXI and FFXIV and to make it cross platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami View Post
    ...
    The short reply is : in order to avoid too much clipping and make the game runs faster, you delete as many subsurfaces as you can. The more your bones and meshes are standardized, the less works it requires to update hairs, weapons and other gears.

    If a new character is not compatible with the standard, you need to make specific mesh. They added new races only because many players asked them.

    That's why you have many MMOs with job lock, gender lock, race lock.
    (2)
    Last edited by Eldevern; 05-31-2021 at 09:02 PM.
    Altoholic
    La normalité n'est que la moyenne de nos folies individuelles.
    Normality is just an average. I'm the weird, you're the bizarre.

  4. #4
    Player
    WhiteArchmage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,459
    Character
    Samniel Atkascha
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Well, we have to remember that male Viera was a "not happening unless we can overcome what's making them hard to implement, and it is HARD" and we still got them along with confirmation that female Hrothgar are coming. Hairstyles were actually confirmed to be coming ("Soon") So we can except they're ACTUALLY working on them but either hit a snag or wanted to have both genders out to give them shared hairstyles down the line (I HOPE, gosh I don't want to think Viera would get gender-locked HAIRSTYLES when we've been getting pretty androgynous stuff for all the other races)
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    Gameovers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    Shiro place
    Posts
    631
    Character
    Server Malfunction
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    That first no makes me lol. " No " Tho honestly, It must be extremely hard for them to get these things to work on a world wide way. Either that or it's simply a time issue. It might be a time issue, as they are doing EW work, job updates and everything that needs to be done for the new Xpax. And on that note.. PR is evil.

    I bet he wishes nothing more but to be extremely blunt and upfront but there's noway he can be that without the press taking what he says and twisting it for clicks and drama. PR is evil. And made by Eggman comfirmed.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Quintessa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    528
    Character
    Saturn Vitrell
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 18
    Quote Originally Posted by Recon1o6 View Post

    TLDR
    Short answer to all questions: No.
    Reaper has 3 types of actions, scythe, avatar, joint scythe+avatar
    Its sounding like a burst dps
    Fixed, also:

    Reaper: SMN+SAM+DRG = SSD.

    Quote Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami View Post
    Could someone explain to me their whole clipping argument?
    Hrothgar: The hair is part of the head mesh. The head mesh is the problem. To fit helmet on the head means the hair will poke through. I think due to the hair sharing the mesh, they can't "zero" it out(hide it) like the hair for other races which are detached as that would mean the head gets hidden.
    Viera: The ears are part of the head mesh. The ears is the problem. To fit helmet on head means tickering with the ears. To my fellow viera players, I know this doesn't explain why they haven't made new hair(even unique to the race).

    I'm having to remember how skinning and rigging works and stuff as I type this. Also deformation is one of the harder things in 3D modeling.. it was for me at least. Some dresses/waist capes/capes have au ra and mi'qot tails clipping.. You'd think making a simple "hole" would be an easy fix, but they must account for the bones associated with the tails and it's swinging and swaying during certain animations. You have to deform the mesh to account for all that movement.. It will look perfect if the character is standing still not moving. Then the character starts running, and here we go....

    Also, they wish to avoid retroactive fitting(I might be wrong here because it's clear they use base templates for all the gear in this game, judging by how much the same models gets recycled), i.e. having to go and edit all the ARR gear and stuff.

    Finally, this is all just a best guess of mine, I don't work at SE so I can't possibly know what really is the issues they have.
    (14)
    Last edited by Quintessa; 05-31-2021 at 02:17 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Yencat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,311
    Character
    Feiya Harlow
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Quintessa View Post
    Hrothgar: The hair is part of the head mesh. The head mesh is the problem. To fit helmet on the head means the hair will poke through. I think due to the hair sharing the mesh, they can't "zero" it out(hide it) like the hair for other races which are detached as that would mean the head gets hidden.
    I don't believe it is, people have looked at the models with a model viewer and the hair is actually separate from the head. Around launch there were also some glitches which sometimes caused the hair to disappear and the head was still there, just bald. The hair is toggled off but everything else is still there.

    This happened with Viera as well, behold the shiny egg people.





    Quote Originally Posted by Quintessa View Post
    Viera: The ears are part of the head mesh. The ears is the problem. To fit helmet on head means tickering with the ears. To my fellow viera players, I know this doesn't explain why they haven't made new hair(even unique to the race).
    Viera ears also don't appear to be a part of the head and can be toggled on or off independently, like when you use the werewolf ears for example your actual ears get toggled off temporarily, but not your entire head.

    The only thing both races are missing that other races have is a 'cropped' version of whatever hairstyle you're using that hides/removes the parts of the hair underneath the hat so it doesn't clip through, so without those models it actually causes quite a bit of clipping other races don't experience to that extent because they have alternate hair models. But it makes some sense at least they didn't make those since originally nothing would show in the head slot at all. Ears also clip obviously, how bad it looks depends on the particular headgear.

    There's probably something else going on, but only they would know that.
    (17)

  8. #8
    Player
    Fukuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    764
    Character
    Oneiron Fuchs
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 90
    ngl i kinda dig that look. should be an option imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yencat View Post
    (8)

  9. #9
    Player KizuyaKatogami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    3,472
    Character
    Kizuya Katogami
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 81
    Quote Originally Posted by Quintessa View Post
    Fixed, also:

    Reaper: SMN+SAM+DRG = SSD.


    Hrothgar: The hair is part of the head mesh. The head mesh is the problem. To fit helmet on the head means the hair will poke through. I think due to the hair sharing the mesh, they can't "zero" it out(hide it) like the hair for other races which are detached as that would mean the head gets hidden.
    Viera: The ears are part of the head mesh. The ears is the problem. To fit helmet on head means tickering with the ears.

    I'm having to remember how skinning and rigging works and stuff as I type this.

    Also, they wish to avoid retroactive fitting(I might be wrong here because it's clear they use base templates for all the gear in this game, judging by how much the same models gets recycled), i.e. having to go and edit all the ARR gear and stuff.
    But the thing is, i could understand not adjusting older gear. It’s the new gear that makes no sense to me. Why can’t they make the new gear work for them? Or hairstyles? It’s just really baffling to me it’s been an entire expansion with seemingly no improvements on that front.
    (10)

  10. #10
    Player
    Raikai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    3,578
    Character
    Arlo Nine-tails
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Recon1o6 View Post
    From a german interview with yoshida, translated over by the kind folks on the reddit discord

    https://www.buffed.de/Final-Fantasy-...rview-1372927/

    Q: A lot of players enjoy making new characters, but get scared of having to redo everything. Are there any plans to make Achievements, Minions and Mounts or even Glams account wide?
    Short A: No
    Longer A: There is NewGame+ if you want to play the story again, there are Fantasia if you want to change your looks and if you want to make a new char for RP get a level boost on the Mogstation

    Q: You announced that Male Viera will be added in 6.0. A lot of players are still waiting for additional hairstyles or the option to wear hats on Viera or Hrothgar, are these being worked on and potentially introduced with the addition of Male Viera?
    Short A: Not yet
    Long A: First off, the reason why Viera and Hrothgar can't wear hats right now is the following. We have very standardized specifications when it comes to head gear and the unique design with the long ears on Viera doesn't always meet these specifications. If we allowed every head gear piece, it would lead to clipping or other errors. The unique design of Viera and Hrothgar just prevents us from allowing these pieces, if we want to follow our specifications
    Nevertheless, we are aware of player feedback and we are definitely not the kind of dev team that ignores their players feedback. (Healers would like to know your location)
    There were a few things we said would be impossible to do, but we worked hard on it and made it possible in the end... I hope to have some good news soon.

    Isghard housing available in 6.1


    TLDR
    Reaper has 3 types of actions, scythe, avatar, joint scythe+avatar
    Its sounding like a burst dps
    Anime influence, bleach for one example

    No plans to make game more alt friendly

    Hats later for buns/lions, finish the genders first
    I understand the thing about some hats and helmets not working due to clipping reasons, even with ear holes in the case of Viera. If you use photoshop and try to overlay a lot of headgear items you can see what that means. Miqo'te is easier to work around that because their ears are more to the side, and Viera's is literally on top of the head.

    HOWEVER, there are some items that there's absolutely no excuse, such as the Calfskin cap (and a number of other similar items, like bandanas)... Just a hole would work. If they looked upon those smaller items, like caps, hoods and bandanas, it would open a huge variety.
    (3)

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